Negative Threads

[Sephiroth]

Ive created this poll to get the opinions on some on what they think about negative threads or negativity on the forums in general and what could/can be done about it. And if you think it is a problem.

[phalkon30]

Actually, from what I've seen lately, the negativity seems pretty low. "Noobie bashing" seems a little too high, but its been much worse in the past, and frankly some of these people deserve to have thier heads brought out of the clouds.

I think the only problem right now is Spamming in the news...a few certain users feel the need to constantly spam their program.

[FreakinWeasel]

Certain people seem to like to bash and flame anything they disagree with. I understand the difference of opinion supported by other facts, but not when someone just blurts out a F$ck You in response to a legitimate discussion.
ESV seems to get the most bashing. Some deserved I guess,but if you don't like it don't use it. It's not here to be a personal blight on ZP. I remember how much Morpheus or AG got pimped when it started.

Yes, newbie use is on the rise, so what? I'm a newbie by your guys standards and some of these other people have just arrived on the scene so they don't know all the rules of etiquette. They will learn, but not if we all hammer them their first time out. Maybe a Newbie FAQ or link to newbie forum on the front page would help in these matters. We are in a time when lively discussions are necessary because P2P is facing some major changes as well as our personal freedoms. So don't kill the new guys they may just turn out to be the next Krell or Crazy Horse.



Anyway those are just my thoughts. Let the flames consume me!:devil

[notbob]

Originally posted by FreakinWeasel
So don't kill the new guys they may just turn out to be the next Krell or Crazy Horse.



Anyway those are just my thoughts. Let the flames consume me!:devil

krell and ch are
a)adults
b)full of knowlege
c)can read and use internet resources appropriately to get answers
d) do not post simply to raise their post count

the morons that get flamed are
a)children
b)think they know everything
c)deny they are wrong even when confronted with evidence

the flamees will never be moderators, nor should they ever be

as for negative threads, delete the stoned raptor type posts, delete ones by people who have nothing meaningful to say

as for content that seph doesn't agree with, that should be left alone (he doesn't own the place, he just works here)

political debate, religious debate, legal debate all have a place here whether he likes it or not--personal attacks, go ahead and delete them, but leave the threads alone otherwise

[grab]

Originally posted by notbob


political debate, religious debate, legal debate all have a place here whether he likes it or not--personal attacks, go ahead and delete them, but leave the threads alone otherwise

I completely agree. It seems some people cant tell the difference between a personal attack (flaming) and posting in a way which tries to raise debate.

Anyway, seph asked a good question and here is an answer:

If a thread breaks the rules delete it. If a thread doesnt break the rules, leave it the hell alone.

[Krell]

Anyway those are just my thoughts. Let the flames consume me!

Well its not derserving of flames, I understood what you meant.

I want to agree with notbob, I just never see any non P2P topics stay workable, and those threads ends up detracting from what we are here to do, discuss P2P.

Keep in mind that, altho not everything should be viewed as "part of the problem, or part of the solution" . . many of these people are just always the problem.

In a post to sephi earlier, I mentioned (for the thousandth time) that most of out problems, are perpetuated by a few of the people. This is where my zero tolerence kicks in.

Lamourlady, that gutsy well spoken proponent of truth justice and the american way, whom I wish would be a mod, PMed me recently proposing that we have a Newbie FAQ sticky.

I have been mulling it around, havent committed anything to paper yet.



and then . . . .



Also, the dogma, the constant you suck threads, ESV sucks posts, and on and on . . is going to stop. The banter back and forth about ESV in particular. I have no interest in making any concession to ESV. Im sick of the fanboying, and I am sick of the responses to it.

ESV will be able to post their updates, Kabair or Filehoover, any officially recognized rep can post. They will be able to post these updates with NO response or repurcussion.

Other ESV members will NOT post updates. They will not fanboy. The ESV threads will be cleaned up and consolidated, and it will be clear as to where ESV posts their product or service announcements, and where other may ask them a question.

Finally, and we all mean FINALLY . . . we will not endure continued ESV flaming here at all from anyone, whatsoever.
ESV has an entire forum dedicated to their service, USE IT.

If you dont like it, go tell THEM about it, not us.

If you have less than constructive criticisms, go THERE to tell them, not us.

If I see one negative comment spewn by anyone, I close the threads. This is the last resort to closing the ESV forums for good. Sephiroth, The Hunter, Rickio, and myself . . have gone far and above what we should to try to keep things amicable, and let things work out. I have pages and pages of dialogue with ESV members and the other moderators spanning months, and its time for this forum eye-sore and embarrasement to stop.

Since its seems that 1/2 our flaming is directly related to ESV . . . this is a major objective.



no matter what you do...or how hard you try....you cant please everyone!

true true janett999

.

[Undermind]

I agree with with all that has been said so far, all I would like to add is that the attitudes are way out of hand sometimes, and I'm specifically talking about Seph and Krell, now before you get all pouty and angry I'm not saying this to piss you guys off, I just think sometimes you are a bit harsh on some ppl without a valid reason, you guys are so damn quick to jump on people and then you wonder why all the bad apples? You guys are mods, who are supposed to help people, not jump down their throats and be the forum police, granted that sometimes it comes to that, I know, but some ppl deserve it, all I'm saying is maybe a chill pill or two couldn't hurt

[Mel_Smiley]

Chill pills are good and recomended. They are two harsh mo fo's!! LOL

[Sockfulloflove]

as for the newbie bashing, i can see why it happens, i guess people are sick of newbies coming and asking "what should i use, is this better than this? omg i don't know what to do!" and then other give the same response, "use the search button." but also, i think getting bashed is like almost an acceptance. most of the regs here probably got bashed as newbies.

[FreakinWeasel]

Alll references to that " other program" have been removed for Krell's safety and blood pressure.


Originally posted by Krell

Also, the dogma, the constant you suck threads, *** sucks posts, and on and on . . is going to stop. The banter back and forth about *** in particular. I have no interest in making any concession to ***. Im sick of the fanboying, and I am sick of the responses to it.

*** will be able to post their updates, Kabair or Filehoover, any officially recognized rep can post. They will be able to post these updates with NO response or repurcussion.

Other *** members will NOT post updates. They will not fanboy. The *** threads will be cleaned up and consolidated, and it will be clear as to where *** posts their product or service announcements, and where other may ask them a question.

Finally, and we all mean FINALLY . . . we will not endure continued *** flaming here at all from anyone, whatsoever.
*** has an entire forum dedicated to their service, USE IT.

If you dont like it, go tell THEM about it, not us.

If you have less than constructive criticisms, go THERE to tell them, not us.

If I see one negative comment spewn by anyone, I close the threads. This is the last resort to closing the *** forums for good. Sephiroth, The Hunter, Rickio, and myself . . have gone far and above what we should to try to keep things amicable, and let things work out. I have pages and pages of dialogue with *** members and the other moderators spanning months, and its time for this forum eye-sore and embarrasement to stop.

Since its seems that 1/2 our flaming is directly related to *** . . . this is a major objective.
.


See Krell, just the mere mention of that "other" program took up a major portion of your post. In my message, I wasn't saying anything about being for or against the damn thing only that it was a major source of negativity around here recently.
And in the end you said it best "Since its seems that 1/2 our flaming is directly related to (I won't mention it again!) . . . this is a major objective."

So how do we achieve this without you mods having to be the ref's constantly? Or is the only way to close any and all threads on "that other program"?

[method77]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Ive created this poll to get the opinions on some on what they think about negative threads or negativity on the forums in general and what could/can be done about it. And if you think it is a problem. I don't really get the question. Are you talking about newbie bashing or negativity in general? If it's the first one you are talking about, i'm against it but if you are talking about posts that don't agree with the masses then...
but...to be honest....just like the real world....no matter what you do...or how hard you try....you cant please everyone! nice one janett999


/me voted "don't care"

[Rickio]

I try and not judge a post but simply get involved if it is breaking some rules.

But in fact when Jorge asked me to Mod he did say, get rid of ignorant posts.

That is the hard thing to do as I then begin judging. I am interpretting Sephs post here "Negative Threads" in the same light as ignorant posts.

Fact is if it does become overwhelming, we have to react. I am not a hothead and I am fairly mellow. I will delete ignorant and pointless, negative posts.



peace

[Krell]

So how do we achieve this without you mods having to be the ref's constantly? Or is the only way to close any and all threads on "that other program"?

I wasnt responding to you, I just added your name in there as I posted to be courteous, just like I did janett999's

I had already typed all that before you posted. So it was not the mere mention of anything.

We dont WANT to be refs constantly, thats the issue, were just sick of people going on and on and on and bickering.

How do you (collectively) achieve this? I dunno . .. shut the hell maybe . . stop with the flaming . . . and they suck threads, . . just a thought.

Also, when I do not address people who are problem makers, they do not get "better", they are already bad apples, I didnt make them that way. So now I am upfront, and when people start off here with criticism and dogging other members in the first dozen posts, I am not going to take it easy on them.

There are people here who have racked up hundreds of posts basically just telling others how stupid they are, or having some smart-assed thing to say.

As far as closing an entire forum, . . have you seen it happen yet? NO, why ? Patience, which is for the most part, exhausted, . . . so when I get PMs from ESV people trying to get me to force certain ZP members in to not criticizing them, my response is, stop being a fanboy and feeding the flames.
(yes I have to deal with this, you dont)

Thats why I say I am not going to make concessions, and will not be coerced.

Now to stay on topic, it is everyones responsability to provide quality or respect in a thread, not just mine. Do I address every flame? Nope. Do I remove every nipple shot? No. Have I not gien many people more than one chance to participate and make an investment here? I love most of the new members, but some . . . I can see the handwriting on the wall.

It's your choice guys, make it better or make me clean up. The day I dont have to delete flames, move threads and settle politics, I will be chillin by the pool.

.

[chipperrox]

howabout wheneer someone says something dumb
the
mods put a message in bold red type saying (these views are not condoned by zp etc? or something to that effect

but dont be a smartass by putting one at the bottom of this post (just something i would do)

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Undermind
I agree with with all that has been said so far, all I would like to add is that the attitudes are way out of hand sometimes, and I'm specifically talking about Seph and Krell, now before you get all pouty and angry I'm not saying this to piss you guys off, I just think sometimes you are a bit harsh on some ppl without a valid reason, you guys are so damn quick to jump on people and then you wonder why all the bad apples? You guys are mods, who are supposed to help people, not jump down their throats and be the forum police, granted that sometimes it comes to that, I know, but some ppl deserve it, all I'm saying is maybe a chill pill or two couldn't hurt

You know anyone who thinks "oh dont take this as a flame" i have never really seen it work.

How do you know those people didnt deserve it or not? Just because everything isnt made a public specticle doesnt means that its not valid.

Also keep in mind that you dont know me well enough to know my attitude on things. Basing our attitudes when were dealing with some lamer or other problem is not really a accurate way to do so. Just like it would be inaccurate for someone to assume my intelligence based solely on my spelling/grammar.




Other than newbie bashing which should not happen here and no one should be that immature. People should be measured by their posts and actions not by their post count. Questions from new posters are a normal thing and at least this forum gets new posters. Forums that dont get boring and dull.

This place has always been welcoming to anyone who wants to have a mature discussion and behave and not flame and spam and etc and should always remain that way.

Some people think that the only way to get responses is to get under the skin of people. Which considering that even they they do try that way it doesnt work and is really unneccessary because people post about it anyways.

The lounge is not really for "serious" or p2p discussion. Never has been, never will be. That wont change no matter how hard you try and instead of complaining about it then just use a different forum which that could be the purpose of the new VIP forum could be other non lounge type(i.e. "silly) posts that arent p2p releated. So knock yourself out. ill do some moving to get it ready.

Personally i dont care if people want to talk about politics, laws, and whatever as long as it doesnt turn into flaming and insulting, sterotyping, ridculing and just bashing each other opinions and beliefs instead of discussing them.

All p2p threads are either in the general p2p discussion forum or that programs forum.

Which to help try to get more diverse p2p topics here and more activity in different forums is why we have to stop with the people promoting other programs in another ones threads and forum, and in the middle of people's threads when they didnt ask for it. Which really turns away users from those programs/networks from posting here and isnt real helpful which isnt good for anyone.

[downloadalot]

Originally posted by chipperrox
howabout wheneer someone says something dumb
the
mods put a message in bold red type saying (these views are not condoned by zp etc? or something to that effect


No because it would imply that the other statements are indeed condoned by zp. Zp has not to deceide what is intelligent and what is not. It is up to the people to judge. Personnaly, I dont mind seeing few dumb things once in a while, they often make me laugh. Anyhow, I do beleive dumb ideas have a right to be, just so we realise how dumb they are.

As for the thread subject, no negativity is not a problem. The problem is the lack of tolerance towards negativity. I shall call that "negativicism". People have every right to be as negative as they want, just as long as it doesnt get too personnal. Some things in life really suck! Zeropaid would become sooo boring if it was always politicaly correct and polite.

[Undermind]

when I said I didn't mean it as a flame I meant it, it was just some constructive criticism, I didn't go on and assume to judge you in any way, but there is a certain tone in some of your posts that any half-wit can pick up on so don't hide behind that lame-ass "you don't know me" excuse, I don't want to know you, you asked for feedback and I gave it as best I could without making it personal, if you want to take it that way, that's your problem not mine, and your subtle jabs @ other forums didn't go unnoticed all I have to say is that at least I can say I did something and made something from nothing, I'm not trying to compete with anyone, what have you proved? besides the fact that you can piggie back on someone else's idea and run with it, sure we have our differences sometimes, but I never choose to take any of it personal, but you always seem to want to take it there, why I don't know

[MoonMan]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
You know anyone who thinks "oh dont take this as a flame" i have never really seen it work.

How do you know those people didnt deserve it or not? Just because everything isnt made a public specticle doesnt means that its not valid.

This statement confuses me. We are on a public forum are we not ? What could they possibly do behind the scenes besides maybe give you a nasty PM ? I may post less but I crawl these forums day after day like a nasty itch that won't go away and I have to say that I do not see why some people are treated so harshly. Honest opinion.

As far as negative threads go, well I don't really see too many anymore. I think some "negative" threads are pretty constructive but get dubbed nasty because the mod or select group of users single it out 'cuz they do not agree with it's statement/message/content on a personal level (ie it is perfectly in line with the rules). Any kind of threads started to flame others, hurt someone, etc should be stopped dead in their tracks without question.

[CCSDUDE]

No two people have the exact same outlook on life/work/ect and just as no two people have the same outlook there will always be fighting and BS....

You can't keep it down so you just gotta ride the wave or ban everyone who doesn't have the same outlook as you...which would mean you'd have to ban everyone, even Jorge. LOL

[ATLien]

Originally posted by chipperrox
howabout wheneer someone says something dumb
the
mods put a message in bold red type saying (these views are not condoned by zp etc? or something to that effect

but dont be a smartass by putting one at the bottom of this post (just something i would do)
How would you constitute, "something dumb"? Most people, may say things that they don't think is dumb, but it might sound dumb to others. Yes? No?

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Undermind
when I said I didn't mean it as a flame I meant it, it was just some constructive criticism, I didn't go on and assume to judge you in any way, but there is a certain tone in some of your posts that any half-wit can pick up on so don't hide behind that lame-ass "you don't know me" excuse, I don't want to know you, you asked for feedback and I gave it as best I could without making it personal, if you want to take it that way, that's your problem not mine, and your subtle jabs @ other forums didn't go unnoticed all I have to say is that at least I can say I did something and made something from nothing, I'm not trying to compete with anyone, what have you proved? besides the fact that you can piggie back on someone else's idea and run with it, sure we have our differences sometimes, but I never choose to take any of it personal, but you always seem to want to take it there, why I don't know

Talking about my attitude is a personal trait of my and so it was personal becaue you are talking about a personal attribute.

Dont get angry at me because anenga, ashitaka and others on the shareaza forum didnt realize that when they make posts on a public forum that anyone can see them. If they didnt want people to see it then they shouldn't have posted it which im sure they have a private forum over there.

Many posters here post on multiple forums which is fine and is there choice to do so and if you think that its wrong to be constantly trying to improve the forums here then good for you. Which we have good relationships with many other forums too.

[Crazy Horse]

It is truly sad when we have a few people that would rather be part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.

It is also sad that these same people feel it is better to flame, insult, bash, belittle, troll, and otherwise take something valuable away from this site to bolster their own small egoes and small minds by showing their lack of maturity and lack of respect for other peoples opinions.

It saddens me that these people can neither give or take constructive criticism.

We have a very good core group of regular posters here that I'm proud to call friends. Some-no, alot of you I know your real names and have had conversations with. Great threads like the family pictures where we put faces to those names. Some of us have even traveled and met each other. We have celebrated good times together-like the birthday threads and CTC's wedding. The graduations and other accomplishments. The list of positive things goes on and on.

I have been here since the beginning and I don't see that the moderating has changed at all. Being on both sides of the fence I can truly say I wish there was no need for us... but alas we come back to those few people. The moderating hasn't changed. The number of trolls making their mark here has though. I think that is a given though as the site has expanded to it's very large size. It's very funny how it's these same few people complaining the loudest about the job we are doing.

The core group here knows we are doing the best we can to provide you with a place you can call cyber-home. A place where we can share ideas and info in an intelligent and respectful manner.

So where I may not always agree with Seph, Krell and the other mods- I am going to respect them and support them.
Cleaning up this site is not really our job - it's YOURS!!! It all begins with you.....part of the solution......it's not that hard. Respect others like you want to be respected. Respect my beliefs-I respect yours.

Everyone knows the rules here. They are basically the same ones you grew up with.

As for the newbies - I have never understood the bashing. Most of them come here for help and they are given the impression we are a bunch of arrogant assholes-What up wit dat?!?!?! I don't know about you but it sure makes me feel good about myself when I have been able to help someone and they say "thanx" rather me giving them some smart ass answer and they tell me to "fuck off".

If there wasn't all this petty bickering and bullshit this site would probably be 3 times the size it is now. We have lost alot of good members and potential members because of those few small minded people.

BE PART OF THE SOLUTION. Make positive contributions. Only then will this site change for the better. IT'S ALL UP TO YOU!!!

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Great Post Crazy Horse

I too feel that the best thing to do is to ignore the people who try to destroy threads and get them deleted by flaming others or doing something they aren't supposed to..

I guess I didn't think about that myself earlier when I argued in a thread but I'm glad that has been cleared up and everything's fine..

I hope people understand that making good posts in which you help people is what this site is all about and when you go on flaming and trolling and spamming other programs you are not very welcome here.

[FreakinWeasel]

Thank you Crazy Horse for that breath of rational thinking.
I do believe that most know what is proper, but feel that they have to respond to those few, you mention, out of frustration. Hopefully, this thread will be a heads up to them ( the trolls, etc.) and we'll go on from there.

[MP3Pr0]

I finally fixed my ZP account so I can post in the forums. Just because I have only a few posts doesn't make me a newbie. I've visited Zeropaid ever since they first went online. I've posted numerous comments and provided my insight. I've even contributed links to new apps like LeecHammer, for example.

Bashing newbies is stupid. It makes people uncomfortable. Who needs that? Positive criticism is cool - not what I've been seeing lately.

You never know who's on the other end of the wire... best not to judge without really knowing. Lots of brilliant people with great ideas out there and it's better to stay open-minded, especially with newbies.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MoonMan
This statement confuses me. We are on a public forum are we not ? What could they possibly do behind the scenes besides maybe give you a nasty PM ? I may post less but I crawl these forums day after day like a nasty itch that won't go away and I have to say that I do not see why some people are treated so harshly. Honest opinion.

As far as negative threads go, well I don't really see too many anymore. I think some "negative" threads are pretty constructive but get dubbed nasty because the mod or select group of users single it out 'cuz they do not agree with it's statement/message/content on a personal level (ie it is perfectly in line with the rules). Any kind of threads started to flame others, hurt someone, etc should be stopped dead in their tracks without question.

You can't be here 24/7.

Some people think that they deserve "special treatment" because they have a large post count or have been here for a while or are a "regular" or whatever even if they help run other parts of the site which they shouldnt be a troublemaker anyways they shouldnt need it. No one gets special treatment or favoring.

If they want to complain about the same thing over and over, cause problems or whatever then they will get treated like everyone else.

Even if they are your buddies or not.

Which getting the middle of it wont help anyone and will only makes things worse.

[Undermind]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Talking about my attitude is a personal trait of my and so it was personal becaue you are talking about a personal attribute.



Yes, it was personal, and it was aimed at you, but not in a negative way, I wished you could understand that, but I guess you couldn't and just because your attitude is your "personal trait," as you call it, does not mean that it does not affect this place as a whole, this is a public forum after all, and what you post is subject to discussion, whether you like it or not, not to say that we all want to talk about you, but I'm just trying to say that it's all out there in the open, if you think I'm a troll then by all means tell me, don't beat around the bush about it, and if anyone else has something to add then go for it, I am not scared of anyone's opinion, because I don't think I am a negative addition to this place, but if it is the majority's opinion that I am a troll then I'll have no problem leaving, I don't want to be where I am not wanted or hated, and please only negative comments, this is not some pathetic attempt at a popularity contest so I don't need to hear any positive comments in an attempt at cheering me up or something (just in case there were any out there).

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Undermind
Yes, it was personal, and it was aimed at you, but not in a negative way, I wished you could understand that, but I guess you couldn't and just because your attitude is your "personal trait," as you call it, does not mean that it does not affect this place as a whole, this is a public forum after all, and what you post is subject to discussion, whether you like it or not, not to say that we all want to talk about you, but I'm just trying to say that it's all out there in the open, if you think I'm a troll then by all means tell me, don't beat around the bush about it, and if anyone else has something to add then go for it, I am not scared of anyone's opinion, because I don't think I am a negative addition to this place, but if it is the majority's opinion that I am a troll then I'll have no problem leaving, I don't want to be where I am not wanted or hated, and please only negative comments, this is not some pathetic attempt at a popularity contest so I don't need to hear any positive comments in an attempt at cheering me up or something (just in case there were any out there).

First i think you should quit being so defensive and you should worry more about yourself than others. Also dont assume things yourself which if i was out to call you a troll then i would have done so in the beginning.

Also i said earlyer dont get in the middle of things because it only makes things worse.

To me it seems that you to really need the "chill pill."

[Undermind]

I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you man, cuz this shit is gonna go on forever and it doesn't need to. I see it one way, you see it another and that is not gonna change, so I will keep being me and you keep being you and whatever happens happens.

[vipp]

I'm sure there is some 'cleaning up' of posts before I get around to reading them, so it's difficult to vote accurately on the matter, since I don't see everything. But I did vote no based on what I do see.

As far as newbie bashing, I do see that happen sometimes. But I have to admit, I felt that maybe someone knew more about them than I did, as in maybe they were really someone else that had been a trouble maker before, and they had just re-registered using another name.

If they are truely newbies asking for help, no matter how 'stupid' or 'pointless' their questions may sound, they need help. And they are here asking us. I say we all keep up the good work in trying to help others.

ZP is a great forum.

[Brycen257]

Thanks for the comments, crazyhorse you make a lot of excellent points . It is important to treat everyone with respect whether they agree with you or not and newcomers need to ne encouraged and made welcome not bashed and flamed.

It should also be made clear to new comers though that they have certain responsibilities:

1. Read through the forums and the information posted and become familar with the topics discussed on zeropaid.

2. Show respect for the opinions and attitudes of others .

3. Make some attempt to locate information on fairly basic topics themselves first before posting . There is no reason why someone can't look around the site for all relevant information before posting and asking for help, other than laziness.

4. Don't waste a lot of time either in posting things that everyone already knows or exchanging insults with anyone on an existing thread.

5. Don't post just to raise your post count. If you have something relevant to say, please say it , otherwise you can read the posts without adding to them.

6. Everyone needs to realize that they should try to be tolerant and respectful of others in their posts or expect that the moderators will become involved and either close the thread or punish the offender.

7. New members should not automatically expect that they will be able to change the opinions of others here . They can expect a variety of opinions and expressions on any given topic that will contribute to a spirited debate , but this will not necessarily result in existing members changing their views. This is reality. Not everyone will see things as you do. get used to it.

8. New members should also remember not to take things that are said or comments that are made by others too seriously. Everyone loses their temper at times and says things they wish they could take back, but there's no point in agonizing over something you can't change.

[Mel_Smiley]

There are some good post/points made in this thread. I try and keep it light and not use flames or make derogative, arguementative posts. Use tact, use your people skills, use your brain. If being a jackass is the only way you you can get attention, what does that say about you?
But all in all, this is a great bunch of people. This being the public forum that it is, there will always be "nOObs" who need questions answered and deserve respect like anyone else. Tired of answering the same old question? Then don't reply. simple as that. move along and stop the insults.
yeah you can't please everyone but some just try and please themselves and damn the rest. That dont fly either.

[mojo-ris-in]

I just wanna point out a few things here.

1st of all long timers here; if you see a new person posting a question, in the wrong section, kindly redirct the to the proper area. They can always delete the post and repost in the proper forum. That would help the mods tremendously in cleaning up.
I see a few users like Jannett ,Wolfie, CCS and others doing it but we could always use more.

2nd of all sometimes people need to realize that none of the mods want to babysit with problem childs. But sometimes they have to. When they have to constantly get in the middle of fanboys, trollers, flamers, etc over and over, you tend to get thicked skinned and may come off in a different light or as an asshole. Is it right? Maybe not but it happens so you can do 1 of two things. Let it go or let it grind at you. Hell when Moonie 1st started coming here he and I didn't always see eye to eye but I respect him and what he has to say even if I don't always agree with him. It CAN be done but it's up to everyone though Mods AND Posters. To blame one or the other is seeing 1/2 the problem and with a forum this size we need to see the whole problem. If not then nothing will ever change.

Now the ESV thread is one that really needs to be thought about. You can't fault anyone for having reservations about the program, after all what are we if not cautious? We haven't survived this long keeping our guards down and numerous VALID questions have been danced around by fanboys, prboys, and the people in charge. I look at it this way, if they can't or won't be forthcoming, then I will have my doubts about them. I don't care if they find a better way to slice bread, balance the deficit or whatever i will go back to the fact that I don't quite trust them. That said though, the bashing has to stop. Don't open a thread, get it closed, and open another one to harp on the same damn thing. And for every single thread on ESV do we have to have the same people at each others throats? Enough! Step away from the keyboard and take a chill pill. It is their forum and they should be able to post in it. Same thing goes with the fanboys, post the thread , state your information, and move along or answer questions what ever. If both sides can get it through their skulls that they DON'T have to have the final word, every time then things would go smoother.

One last thing, on the subject of political and other off topic thought provoking forums, if it can be done then I'm for debate threads. However everytime we do this it becomes more than spirited debate and feelings get hurt so they respond and so on and so on and so on. It always completely gets away from the subject and becomes (sorry ladies)nothing more than a dick waving contest. You guys ever wonder why more ladies don't post here? Well there you go, that's why.

I'm not saying I have all the answers but I think Crazy Horse said it well by saying that this is your house. It was built for all of us and it takes all of us working together to keep it cozy and tidy for guests. Do we want new people to see a bunch of phallic waving people saying this and that sucks and ridiculing people or do we want a board with good solid contributions that is helpful to confused people and has an occasional thought provoking topic and a few lame jokes here and there? That's what it all boils down to and it's really your choice.

Well I started this out to make a few points and look what it produced. LOL!

[reg]

...i don't see negative threads as a problem ... the mods do their best to keep that to a minimum ... & it's nice to read comments about the mods working together, & in the end, supporting the decisions of the other mods, even if, sometimes, they may not agree ... solidarity.

the opinions expressed in this thread have been great to read ... personally, i kinda don't like to see good threads get closed because a few start to get negative ... i'd rather see those few individual negative posts deleted (which, may, very well already happen behind the scenes & we're just not aware of it??), so that thoughtful discussion, debate, & the sincere sharing of opinions could continue. then, as a last resort, close the thread, if the downward spiral continues. & if individual negative posts are deleted 1st & closing the thread is a last resort ... then, thank you ... : )

[Kyle06]

No I don't think they have been a problem lately

[rainbowdemon]

1st of all long timers here; if you see a new person posting a question, in the wrong section, kindly redirct the to the proper area. They can always delete the post and repost in the proper forum. That would help the mods tremendously in cleaning up. I have thought about doing this on occasion. But I also thought that it could be considered as overstepping. But you are a moderator, and if you want help with this I can do it. No problem. btw/ Great photo of Morrison!!

[PiRaNeTuS]

I don't think that negative threads and posts have been a problem lately. Maybe I don't see them because a mod has already dealt with it, but from what I have seen, I haven't seen any.

For those few that continually troll or flame or whatever, sure do whatever you feel is needed. Ban them, do whatever. I think that we do need to lighten up on the newbies though. These people come here looking for help, and almost always, one of us has to have some wise ass remark to say that just sparks a flame war. I totally agree with Crazy Horse's post.

As far as debate threads, don't close them. I usually have some of the best discussions in them. Yes, people can tend to get angry in those threads and start to flame people. But the majority do not. I have had good discussions with people like grab and notbob a few times and (hope) that I have made somewhat friends with them. No, we do not agree on a lot of issues when it comes to politics, religion, whatever, but we usually argue in a good manner, and I (again hope) that we have all learned more by our discussions. I know that I have at least. For those that blatantly flame or whatnot, ban them, delete their posts whatever.

I just think it all goes back to just the forum rules. If it breaks the rules, delete it and ban them. Porn, warez links, blatant flaming, trolling, sure ban them and delete them. BUT, if it's not in the rules, don't close or delete something just because a mod doesn't agree with what is being said. Just my two cents.

And btw, I think all the mods are doing a great job. Don't agree with everything, but hey, that's the point isn't it? They don't ask for my approval when acting on something, nor should they. They are the mods for a reason. I do think some may go overboard sometimes when doing something, but again, there is nothing that I can do about it, so I'm not gonna worry about it. For about 99% of all the actions of all the mods, I agree with and support.

And mods, dont' get mad with any of the posts in this thread. You asked for our opinions, and people have given them.

[isus]

i don't mind. everybody has the right to post their opinion, it's a forum...

[TipYourBartender]

A couple of things:

First off, I know that recently I made a horrific flame post on an ESV thread. I want to apologize to everyone for that. As much as I felt I had to say something about what was being said, I could have been much more mature about it. I should have just stepped away from the keyboard. In any event, I'm not going near the ESV threads anymore, and, once again, my apologies.

Secondly, with regards to what mojo-ris-in stated about debate threads, part of the reason I signed up at ZP was because you guys had that kind of debate. For every thread that ends up in flaming, there is a thread that really has a good 6-7 pages' worth of debate. Older threads regarding marijuana legalization, the war in Iraq, and Chris' DRM side job are all threads that I remember having, to a certain extent, a serious back-and-forth. As much as I know the mods understandably want to prevent flaming, I hope that, at the same time, you all realize that such debate is invaluable on ANY forum.

Third, with regards to the newbies, I just think we all have to remember that newbie Forumites ask newbie questions. It only takes 60 seconds to point them in the right direction, so why not take the time to do it??

[nasrules]

Originally posted by Krell
the american way


/me winces at use of phrase


Originally posted by Krell
no matter what you do...or how hard you try....you cant please everyone!


Very true. And good points about ESV, the flaming and fanboying needs to stop.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by nasrules
/me winces at use of phrase
.

You might not like it but you should at least respect others who do. If you are not mature enough to do so then stay away from political posts.

Things like the "unpatroitic" posts or attacks on the people from other countries is not only not needed for political discussions but this is fair warning that they will get closed or removed because they were the cause of all the problems in the past.

This is not a partisan forum.

[cheapprick]

I have to admit, I'd be a little more pleased if some of the lesser known people would come out of the woodwork. This can hardly be seen as a representative poll when it's only the forum warhorses voting. Yes new people, I'm talking about you.

We have literally hordes of members that aren't posting for one reason or another, and I can understand that, as they may be trying to get their bearings. However, I think that if more of them took an active role in the site, the results may not be as close as they are. New people aren't dying to join a place where the regulars throw around snide comments on a daily basis. The members that do join looking for that usually aren't the people welcomed with open arms. I agree with the majority of those who have posted, we have to be a little for forgiving with newbies to the site.

A great number of people have been not neccessarily flamed, but quickly shut down at least, for asking questions we have all heard many times already. Maybe we could try tolerance? Alot of new members have popped up in the last two weeks, and I would be surprised if alot more didn't join in the next while, so maybe we, and I included myself in that, shouldn't feel we have to dominate every single thread.

If that was poorly written, well, I'm at school and have no spell checker, so oopsie if me spell no good.

[Krell]

/me winces at use of phrase
bahhh Nas, its a slogan, get past it, it wasnt even meant to be patriotic. LamourLady is loyal to the site, thats all.

mojo-ris-in, another great post. Same for Brycen257. Its not often I see someone as new as Brycen257 that has suggestions that really fit our forums.

Now, on to newbies. There are basically two types of newbie posts. 1) Im new and I need help 2) Im new here, and I am going to SAVE the day!

Guess which one I like, and which one I do NOT?

3ven 1fy0U typ3 iN br0K3n Engl12H . . I can tolerate it. If you cant find the ANY key, I will help you. However, if you come here, and sign up to start bashing, being a fanboy, or post full page rants 10 times a day . . about how your going to revolutinize the way P2P is done . . . youre not going to make it.

Now cheapprick, I want to address your post, as . . I have stated the same thing, almost verbatim.

The reason that we booted people like scorchie, Dealie or IQ214 etc etc was that constant badgering and instigation, which I agree, who wants to stick their neck out, and get it chopped each time? Look at what happened to the winmx threads. It wasnt the queues in Winmx that killed the threads.

I was told today by someone that I had sent them the only nice PM they had, the others were ones telling them they were stupid or cursing them. This is the sort of malicious and ferocious behavior that I wanted reduced here. The way to do it was thru cleaning up and attrition. (and replacing them with NICE people)

Also keep in mind, that some of our new people, are really imposters, repeats and people from other boards that want to see how long it takes to get banned etc. So you have to weigh the "getting shut down" on a case by case basis. The ones that are RIAA trolls, I am not giving 2 seconds of consideration.

It's my opinion that in the past two weeks, since Jorge puts us in the news, that we have had an unual rash of newbies, and I dont mean the generic brand either. This sudden influx of "Im going to save the day !" and "The RIAA is in my closet OH MY!" . . well its obsurd.

Now that we're past a lot of the reactionary posts, and our new resident experts have typed their pages of brainstorming, I hope we can level out and get back to file sharing. A while back, I stated that I felt everyone must do their part to keep this site valuable and viable, by not being part of the problem, and by trying to be part of the solution. The response was "what do you mean?"

.

[Induna]

Look Seph, if you started this topic because of the Mantra thread then I am very sorry. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings in any way.

Cheapprick answered my query without all the hullabaloo that was created. And I thank him for that.

It's just that my idea of a mod is one who is less seen and even less heard. Impartial and unbiased. I don't really see much evidence of this from the mods here, other than Rickio.

That's just my opinion, nothing else....

[nasrules]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
You might not like it but you should at least respect others who do. If you are not mature enough to do so then stay away from political posts.

Things like the "unpatroitic" posts or attacks on the people from other countries is not only not needed for political discussions but this is fair warning that they will get closed or removed because they were the cause of all the problems in the past.

This is not a partisan forum.

Originally posted by Krell
/me winces at use of phrase

bahhh Nas, its a slogan, get past it, it wasnt even meant to be patriotic. LamourLady is loyal to the site, thats all.


It wasn't meant seriously. I think Krell kinda got my meaning, but I wrongly assumed people would know me better than to think I'd be like that.

Sorry for any offence caused.

[mojo-ris-in]

Originally posted by rainbowdemon
I have thought about doing this on occasion. But I also thought that it could be considered as overstepping. But you are a moderator, and if you want help with this I can do it. No problem. btw/ Great photo of Morrison!!

If it is positive and helps with the clutter, I doubt any mod will object to it IMO. I see it not as overstepping but rather chipping in and frankly we all need to do that. The whole trick is to know when to say something and when to step back. You can politely point people in the right direction and if they razz you for it then let a mod know and let they take care of it. Don't let them get to you by playing their game because it usually backfires.

Induna, I want to comment on one thing you said about the mods and their place. Just because a person is a moderator of a forum doesn't mean they can't have a view. All the mods were contributors and regular posters long before they had the ability to close threads and so forth. Just because mods have the extra responsibility to police this forum doesn't mean they're not the same people who started out posting and should be treated no differently than that. All discussion boards have mods that participate in their boards so why should this board be different?

You know I had reservations about this thread accomplishing anything but the feedback has been really good. Most of the core members have had a chance to step up with thoughts and suggestions and if we could take this and make something out of it then it's something we should definitely pursue.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by nasrules
It wasn't meant seriously. I think Krell kinda got my meaning, but I wrongly assumed people would know me better than to think I'd be like that.

Sorry for any offence caused.

This isnt a tight knit community that rarely gets new posters. New posters dont know you and they would take it the wrong way and that would just wind up with people just country bashing which just ends up as one flame war. That is what i want to avoid.


Originally posted by Krell

I was told today by someone that I had sent them the only nice PM they had, the others were ones telling them they were stupid or cursing them. This is the sort of malicious and ferocious behavior that I wanted reduced here. The way to do it was thru cleaning up and attrition. (and replacing them with NICE people)
.

Ask them to give you a list of names maybe forward a few of the worse ones. Well then give them a warning and if they do it to anyone else then they wont be around here much longer. Since im busy the next few days later this week ill start working on a new poster guide and talk to jorge about crap like that which goes on and other things.

[Rickio]

One point that I would like to make is that we have a group of people here who try and get along and in real life probably would not get along.

Why?

Because we got little kids, teens, young adults and mature adults aka geezers. lol

None of which would talk to each other or put up with the crap of imaturity in real life.

All in all I think we are doing ok and if not we will Mod the hell outa ya lol

Everybody take a chill pill , this is getting boring. As if we haven't heard all this before.


peace

[Induna]

But if mods are allowed to have views their personal feelings get in the way of the modding. Closing threads and so on just because they didn't agree with what somebody said is not a step in the right direction. And I don't think I'm alone in saying this.


>All the mods were contributors and regular posters long before they had the ability to close threads and so forth. Just because mods have the extra responsibility to police this forum doesn't mean they're not the same people who started out posting and should be treated no differently than that.


Well my opinion is that once you become a mod you forefit your rights of being just a 'regular poster' because of the reasons I outlined above.

[Rickio]

Originally posted by Induna
But if mods are allowed to have views their personal feelings get in the way of the modding. Closing threads and so on just because they didn't agree with what somebody said is not a step in the right direction. And I don't think I'm alone in saying this.


>All the mods were contributors and regular posters long before they had the ability to close threads and so forth. Just because mods have the extra responsibility to police this forum doesn't mean they're not the same people who started out posting and should be treated no differently than that.


Well my opinion is that once you become a mod you forefit your rights of being just a 'regular poster' because of the reasons I outlined above.

I do understand your point of view. But this is not formal Moderating. What you speak of is not what a privately owned forum is about. Also it is public but not owned by the public.

Your ideas are for the realm of government and free speech issues and formal debates.

Don't take it so seriously and no mod here is so stupid as to put himself first. We are formost fans of ZP. Bottom line we want whats best and use common sense.

We simply want to keep th forum a place people will feel comfortable to post and ask questions and get help. We do not need excessive arguments, insulting or stupid nonsense threads.

All quite simple huh?


peace

[nasrules]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
This isnt a tight knit community that rarely gets new posters. New posters dont know you and they would take it the wrong way and that would just wind up with people just country bashing which just ends up as one flame war. That is what i want to avoid.

OK Seph, message received. In my defence I would like to add that I was just trying to cheer us all up a bit, this thread is VERY depressing.

In recent times the boards have become very sombre and serious. Sometimes I wish we could go back to how it was not all that long ago and have the flaming, huge disputes and recklessness back for a bit, purely to liven things up.

Rickio: Basically how I feel, and how I perceive many others feel. Great way of putting it into words as always!

[The Hunter]

That is why I became a mod in the first place, because of a love of the place, and also the fact that at that time Seph was pretty much doing all of the moderating. The newbie bashing has always bothered me, but with all of the problems with banned people trying to sneak back, I was worried that I was being a bit too cynical every time I saw a new user. Every time I wondered, is this one legit, or just another troll returned. That is why I have not been here as much as usual, just to sort of recharge my batteries, and to get my old thoughts back. Also i know we have many people that just come here to read, and never post, I would love to see their views.

[Rickio]

Originally posted by The Hunter
That is why I became a mod in the first place, because of a love of the place, and also the fact that at that time Seph was pretty much doing all of the moderating. The newbie bashing has always bothered me, but with all of the problems with banned people trying to sneak back, I was worried that I was being a bit too cynical every time I saw a new user. Every time I wondered, is this one legit, or just another troll returned. That is why I have not been here as much as usual, just to sort of recharge my batteries, and to get my old thoughts back. Also i know we have many people that just come here to read, and never post, I would love to see their views.

Your right, taking a break can and does help. This mainly applies to the crazy core members who get way too involved or uptight at times. Take it easy, take a break and it's much better.

Curtis if we as Mods communicate well, I doubt we will have problems with any of us getting too cynical. Remember it's cool to ask each others advice as I have of you before.

Glad to see ya!

peace

[vipp]

IMO, this thread isn't depressing. It's letting lots of people give their opinion on the issues at hand. It's a good thread.

[The Hunter]

Thanks Rickio, and vipp, you are quit right, it is a pleasant change to see so many people voicing their opinion.

[The Hunter]

Thanks janett, but erm dont mention balls, lol, you know what I mean.

[The Hunter]

Aww shucks, gives janett a big wet kiss. You were well worth it.

[MoonMan]

I think sometimes I am too hard on the mods for their actions, and then I have to hit myself because it's not just about what I think.

I hope you (mods) understand that I think most of you are exceptional people, even if I do not agree with some of your actions.

[Krell]

*Removes finger from Kill button*

Welllll now that you put it THAT way . . . .


I wish we had more members like you, that would also help out and lead the pace for good threads and tech help.

[The Hunter]

Dont worry moonie i got you covered.

[Foreverboard]

Now that I have read threw all of this I will say that you all have just verified that you are all human. It comes down to the fact that we all make mistakes, we all over react, and we all push peoples buttons to see what happens. The only differences in this board to others are threads like this. Where people can talk about the things that happen and no one twitches or takes offence to it. Its what makes ZP our second home. =-)

[The Hunter]

Foreverboard, you are right, and even with all our growing pains.
We must always keep this ability, to be human, especially us mods. For me this is needed too try and keep the respect of our fellow members.

[mojo-ris-in]

Originally posted by Foreverboard
Now that I have read threw all of this I will say that you all have just verified that you are all human. It comes down to the fact that we all make mistakes, we all over react, and we all push peoples buttons to see what happens. The only differences in this board to others are threads like this. Where people can talk about the things that happen and no one twitches or takes offence to it. Its what makes ZP our second home. =-)

Nice! I couldn't agree more.

Oh and Krell Moonie just called you a pussycat. You know what that means---don't drop your wallet around him....LOL!

[The Hunter]

There there janett, some of us actually take the time to read the posts. J/K Mojo.

[reg]

Originally posted by Foreverboard
. . . . Its what makes ZP our second home. =-)
...awww, time for a zp family group hug ... :upside

[phalkon30]

Originally posted by The Hunter
That is why I became a mod in the first place, because of a love of the place, and also the fact that at that time Seph was pretty much doing all of the moderating. The newbie bashing has always bothered me, but with all of the problems with banned people trying to sneak back, I was worried that I was being a bit too cynical every time I saw a new user. Every time I wondered, is this one legit, or just another troll returned. That is why I have not been here as much as usual, just to sort of recharge my batteries, and to get my old thoughts back. Also i know we have many people that just come here to read, and never post, I would love to see their views.
I think it was Rickio that suggested doing this, or at least hanging out on other forums. If you get heavily involved in this site for long periods of time, it is a bad thing, it can interfere with your personal life, I know. My problem right now is I want to take more breaks than time spent here. lol

I'm glad to see some of you guys making amends, if there are inner squables on this site, I'm sure it gets much harder to moderate.

BTW, all human?? One of our mods is pure alien, so I think we can scratch that idea

[method77]

Originally posted by Foreverboard
Now that I have read threw all of this I will say that you all have just verified that you are all human. It comes down to the fact that we all make mistakes, we all over react, and we all push peoples buttons to see what happens. The only differences in this board to others are threads like this. Where people can talk about the things that happen and no one twitches or takes offence to it. Its what makes ZP our second home. =-) THE END
*claps*

[TipYourBartender]

Wow, this thread got sappy in a hurry, didnt it?

I LUV YOU GUYS
*hugs everyone*

Back to topic, it seems like this post has become somewhat more of a referendum on the state of ZP. I suggest we shift the topic from what the problem is to what the solution should be. Fact is, we still have a lot of negative doomsday threads. How do you suppose we correct this?

[mojo-ris-in]

Originally posted by janett999
he did?....or are you just looking at avatars?

check again :)

edit....LOL....i guess mojo likes my avatar on moony then me....
oh well....i guess im going to be looking for a new one :P

LOL I think I need new glasses sheesh

[nasrules]

Originally posted by TipYourBartender
Back to topic, it seems like this post has become somewhat more of a referendum on the state of ZP. I suggest we shift the topic from what the problem is to what the solution should be. Fact is, we still have a lot of negative doomsday threads. How do you suppose we correct this?

What Krell suggested (I think on page 2 or 3) seemed good. No more fanboying, no more spamming. IMO if a thread is closed, it's better off being deleted, as it can be aggravating when you try to add your opinion and find it's been closed!

[Rickio]

Originally posted by janett999
you are making me think.....this is sooo true......i bop in and out of here from work....i get home from work....and i come here.
this is really my 2nd home.

personal life???.....whats that! lol

So what do you think of all the Janett999 clones?

Does it bug you?

Me? hmmm It is confusing sometimes. Not sure its all that funny anymore.

[mojo-ris-in]

Originally posted by Rickio
So what do you think of all the Janett999 clones?

Does it bug you?

Me? hmmm It is confusing sometimes. Not sure its all that funny anymore.

It was cute for about 10 minutes when it was 1 person doing it. Now it has passed cute and is approaching annoying.

[Crazy Horse]

Originally posted by mojo-ris-in
It was cute for about 10 minutes when it was 1 person doing it. Now it has passed cute and is approaching annoying.

Agreed !!

[rainbowdemon]

Originally posted by Crazy Horse
Agreed !! Same here!!!

[Induna]

Originally posted by janett999
i read most of this....and unfortunitly....there are some regs here....that are going to push....walk that fine line.....taunt just to see how far they can push you, no matter what rule changes or any effort you try to do to make this place better....
and its a shame!
some of these ppl.... to be str8 forward and honest....

id like to kick them right in the balls!


I was going to say I love this new aggressive - and dare I say, subversive side to you Janet - I became excited.

But then these guys made me all limp again :(








Look, I'm kiddin'. I saw MoonMan and crackerjacker and thought it was a new game we was playing. I wanted to see a whole thread with just your avatar. That was my dream. Now you've crushed it.


Don't worry, I'm going to replace it with an avatar to represent the true beauty of my soul, and flesh.

[PiRaNeTuS]

Originally posted by rainbowdemon
Same here!!!

Totally agree as well!! It is so annoying and ostentatious.

[Induna]

Ostentanious?

Did you look that up in the dictionary to impress me or Janet?

[grab]

Originally posted by Induna
Ostentanious?

Did you look that up in the dictionary to impress me or Janet?

I was impressed!


And by the way, did anyone notice the dwarf throwing thread got deleted lol. lame or what?

[PiRaNeTuS]

Originally posted by grab
I was impressed!


And by the way, did anyone notice the dwarf throwing thread got deleted lol. lame or what?

Why was that deleted? I mean, granted it was a stupid thread, but it being deleted? What was wrong with it? Oh well.

[phalkon30]

I think this thread is dead and going nowhere fast.

[Induna]

Haha Yes! My dream is almost a reality.

Phalkon strikes me as the type of person who turns the music down at a party when the neighbours come round complaining.

[phalkon30]

You would be correct

[FreakinWeasel]

Just before this thread turned to a more personal level, I was going to comment on how much I have noticed people and mods being more patient with the newer people and even the more foolish not new people. They have been amazingly restrained.....with the excpetion of isus, he's still being fiesty as ever to most :shoot . But you need that balance to keep things interesting !

[Induna]

What you are supposed to do Phalkon is say yes Sir/Mam. Turn the music down a little for a few minutes then turn it up a little higher than before... until the police arrive.

[shawners]

How about this, Moving the forums to the front of the site, and having them click on News to go the news side of it??

[Power Penguin]

This is a forum on website, in the USA. Don't you value free speech?

You should be allowed to say what you like and not be muted. The alleged "flamer" should be argued down and not banned.

The Greeks invented civil society so you should respect it.

Certain Mods here are more like dicators.

And most people agree with me, look at the poll results and weep.

[nukehella]

This thread is a fine example of why the Mod's do what they do.It is pointless and spiteful.Why has it been resurrected?

[Power Penguin]

Originally posted by nukehella
This thread is a fine example of why the Mod's do what they do.It is pointless and spiteful.Why has it been resurrected?

It was a mod who started it, Einstein.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Power Penguin
This is a forum on website, in the USA. Don't you value free speech?

You should be allowed to say what you like and not be muted. The alleged "flamer" should be argued down and not banned.

The Greeks invented civil society so you should respect it.

Certain Mods here are more like dicators.

And most people agree with me, look at the poll results and weep.

Please learn the meaning of free speech which doesnt give people the right to bash and belittle others. Even after they get warning after warning they dont listen because they think that we wont follow through or that if they bitch or if their friends all bitch or they have been here a while the rules dont apply to them and they can get away with anything. That is just not true.

Im not going to play therapist to people who oviously do not want to respect others or the rules here, people can follow the rules or choose not to and live with the conquences. It just does not work at all.

Really maybe you'd be right if everyone acted civil and respected others opinions but in reality people dont.

This is not a government this is a web forum this doesnt have to be complicated and im not going to go about making it any more complicated than it has too.

Considering the poll was left here for a month the results are no longer useful.

[Power Penguin]

I'm glad you don't run elections, if you ignore the results of an opinion poll. Undemocratic - a true dictator.

I would prefer anarchy as the majority of people here are airheads, you'll never get an intelligent discussion anyways. You'd be better off taking a little one to a kindergarten, and see if you can get some sense out them.

[Kooperman]

I can't resist the irony of Pengiun favoring anarchy and having 666 posts at the time I'm posting this, lol. At any rate, there's probably no way to avoid negativism.....file sharing is under attack by some forces, and many newer members seem to be trying to stir the frustrations of others. Not much way to avoid problems without running the forums with such an iron fist that they'd be neutered of any dissent at all, reflecting only the latitudes that the mods favor.

[REDO]

Originally posted by Krell
[B]
It's your choice guys, make it better or make me clean up. The day I dont have to delete flames, move threads and settle politics, I will be chillin by the pool.


I agree with the flames, and moving of threads which arent posted right, but settling politics. A good debate here and there is good. If people can respect everyones point of view, than there is nothing wrong with debating. I think you guys should make a debate forum. I love that.

[NightZombie]

I agree with most what has been said here. Yes the new people should use the search engines before they ask or post.

And yes there is a lot of knowledgable people here that know there stuff. Just have patients with the new people. Everyone was new one time or another.

If the post is not with in guidelines delete it.

People with negative comments growup

Just my thoughts!

[notbob]

this thread is dead on

we need more negative threads

LOTS of them, so come on everybody! do your part!

[TipYourBartender]

Originally posted by REDO
I think you guys should make a debate forum. I love that.

Never gonna happen. The mods are too afraid that debating will lead to flaming. Which, as much as I don't like it, has been borne out to be true.

Although usually I really dislike having old posts drudged up, I think this is still a problem, so I wouldn't mind people giving this another round of thought, and I hope no one else does, either.

I was thinking of having some sort of ZP contest set up. Everyone likes contests, and it would be fun. The winner doesn't even have to win anything, really. It would just be something to brighten up a ZP that has grown increasingly dour.

I know it sounds incredibly stupid, but at least I'm throwing out an idea.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Power Penguin
I'm glad you don't run elections, if you ignore the results of an opinion poll. Undemocratic - a true dictator.

I would prefer anarchy as the majority of people here are airheads, you'll never get an intelligent discussion anyways. You'd be better off taking a little one to a kindergarten, and see if you can get some sense out them.

Look Will you have always been one who has always complained about the mods no matter what were doing.

I didnt ignore the poll result a month ago a little while after this thread was created. After a month and so i would hope that the results would have changed.

If you want me to be as stupid as to make current decisions on old statistics then good for you but im not going to do it.

Which im glad you think you have all the answers but you really dont.

As for the whole debate. A debate isnt for example proving Grab to himself that his own opinion is wrong. Maybe if there were actual debate threads and not editorial "im right and prove me wrong" threads which do end up in flaming because if you dont agree with the opinion in those threads your opinion is wrong and worthless.

Debates are courts where you have to prove everything and unless you have a long wordy and drawn out post about some topic which you've argued here numerous times before you are wrong and so on. And you somehow have to prove to someone like grab or notbob that your opinion is worthy or else you dont have a right to that opinion and you cant post it here.

Im sick of people talking like that there are constant debate threads because there isnt and its not all fault its easy to blame me but if you look time after time again at what ive said about this whos really to stop you?

You want debate threads then why dont you stop blaming me and the other mods and creating these editorial boring crap threads and create a real debate thread for once.

This thread lived its purpose and so im closing it.

[Wolfie]

Talk about old dirty laundry surfacing, lol.

[DefCoN]

Notbob your a fucking joke!

Take you shit slinging somewhere else queer no one wants to hear your faggot ass remarks!

-infringer-


I SEE A BAN OR A WARNING COMING FOR INFRINGER..ON SUCH A UNNEEDED REMARK..

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

We could do with a few less negative posts like the shit sephiroth has been posting here lately.

[the great one]

Notbob your a fucking joke!

Take you shit slinging somewhere else queer no one wants to hear your faggot ass remarks!

-infringer-

Speaking of negative threads!there are more civil ways to handle arguments,infringer!

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

I disagree. It's time someone had the balls to tell it to notbob like it is.

The mods wont give a shit, they don't owe notbob any favours.

[the great one]

I disagree. It's time someone had the balls to tell it to notbob like it is.

The mods wont give a shit, they don't owe notbob any favours.

I'm sure he could try to put Notbob in his place with intellectual comments,instead of profanity,that just makes himself look bad.There is nothing wrong with a debate.

[Mels_Smileys45]

Its kinda funny, in away, but notbob it use to it by now. He's got thick skin. Besides I know he loves it!


Never post while your drinking booze!

You must seek Buddha

[The Hunter]

infringer, please stop with the rude remarks. This is a warning.

[the great one]

Never post while your drinking booze!

Damn, now you tell me!

[Sephiroth]

We could do with a few less negative posts like the shit sephiroth has been posting here lately.

If negativity was something that people could be banned for then you would have been much earlyer than when i banned you. Which its so obvious your out for revenge over that..

Then again i am probably the only person left who knows the reasons why you came here in the first place and the circumstances of you getting banned off another site.

You may have bullied, trolled and insulted many other people you didnt like off this site, and gotten away with it, but that shit never did and isnt going to work with me.

[RACKnRAIL]

Speaking of negative threads!there are more civil ways to handle arguments,infringer!
I happen to like notbobs remarks. It's called freedom of speech. infringer on the other hand is freely speaking, but without thinking. It is better sometimes, to not say anything...but that ain't gonna happen now, is it?

[Excrement_Cranium]

Being a forum, the idea is to take the negative and the positive and to present and provoke thought. When it breaks down into senseless insult and argument is when the concept fails. Though, negative is something that can easily be in the eye of the beholder.

[notbob]

You may have bullied, trolled and insulted many other people you didnt like off this site, and gotten away with it, but that shit never did and isnt going to work with me.


it obviously does work, since you responded exactly as he expected you to

there might be a few bowling pins that are harder to set up than you, but that's about it

[Psilaxs]

This is great, over 2 years old and you people continue to jump sephs shit for no reason.

Ah hell ok, count me in!

[Mels_Smileys45]

I happen to like notbobs remarks. It's called freedom of speech. infringer on the other hand is freely speaking, but without thinking. It is better sometimes, to not say anything...but that ain't gonna happen now, is it?


There is no freedom of speech in a modd'ed forum although ZP comes close. There still are some things that will get you shit canned.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Then again i am probably the only person left who knows the reasons why you came here in the first place and the circumstances of you getting banned off another site.

.

Now you've got me interested! I wasn't aware there were any "circumstances" involved in my coming here. Also I don't know anything about being banned from another site. Please elaborate.

As for the rest of your post, looks like the usual seph whining bullcrap...honestly, if you're that pissed about it why not start a thread at UTC?

[phalkon30]

Have I been gone long enough that sephiroth is back? I thought he was banned like last summer.

[Wolfie]

I don't think he was ever banned.

[wingnut2600]

I don't think he was ever banned.
Nor will he ever be banned... I look forward to the time when he will be reinstated as the head supermod.

I wrote a fantastic thread about the reasons that he should not be unmodded following his unmodding, but some people PMed me to say it was too soon... but I still miss Seph. It is much freer and less repressive with him gone. i miss the unifying struggle against his tyranny.

I miss his whimsical posts and lack of logic...

Perhaps I should go to UTC, but it is too ugly.

[Ass_Co]

it obviously does work, since you responded exactly as he expected you to

there might be a few bowling pins that are harder to set up than you, but that's about it


If I wanted to hear from an asshole I'd fart!

Thats right you know who this is who is this.

I wish the rest of the ZP could figure out notbobs little game.

He blaitaintly takes stabs at folks to aquire them as friends is the basics of it he makes it out like he dosent like you to get you to want him to like you.

He is the resident retard there is one at every forum.

A.S.S. Co
Anti Shit Slingers Coalition
"Taking care of shit slingers one piece of shit at a time"

[notbob]

you couldn't wait the extra day for your ban to run out?

now you'll be banned forever

i'll try not to worry too much about it

so how does one end shit slinging by slinging more shit? if you ended my shit slinging, would you turn your shit slinger onto yourself? look where the machine gun shit slinging approach got you--you could certainly do with some lessons from the master

[cheapprick]

you couldn't wait the extra day for your ban to run out?

now you'll be banned forever

i'll try not to worry too much about it

so how does one end shit slinging by slinging more shit? if you ended my shit slinging, would you turn your shit slinger onto yourself? look where the machine gun shit slinging approach got you--you could certainly do with some lessons from the master



You tell him Mr. Lahey. :blah

He's opened up a can of shit storm tornado shit rope now.

[Carrie]

I guess what I would like to know is why the FUCK UTC is constantly brought into the arguements.

[notbob]

You tell him Mr. Lahey. :blah

He's opened up a can of shit storm tornado shit rope now.

it's spelled lahey, but it's pronounced throatwobbler mangrove

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

I guess what I would like to know is why the FUCK UTC is constantly brought into the arguements.

Blame sephiroth for that. The guy comes over here as a UTC moderator, with a link to UTC in his sig. He is a representative of UTC and should be an ambassador for your site. Then he does nothing but post negative crap about ZP and its members.

Seriously, how long do you think a zeropaid moderator would last at UTC if they went over there with a link to zeropaid in their sig the words "EX-UTCer" in their avatar and did nothing but slam UTC, criticise its moderators and flame the members? 10 minutes? maybe 5?

Besides Sephiroth didn't exactly help things when he tried to provoke crap by starting that ridiculous thread over at UTC. A similar thread would have been closed here instantly (and in fact was).

[Stownplayer]

I don't think it's a problem

[Carrie]

Blame sephiroth for that.

I will not be blaming Him for anything. All past issues behind, he is a member at this site just the same as any other member on this site. He has just as much right as anyone else to throw his opinion into the conversation. If he is really that bad, then why not just ban him? Or better yet, ban him and remove his account, posts and all.



The guy comes over here as a UTC moderator, with a link to UTC in his sig.

He comes here as a member of Zeropaid.He does not log into this site as a Moderator of UTC. When I log into this site it is as a member of Zeropaid. When a member logs into UTC they log in as a member of UTC, not a representative of what ever site they may be staff.
I do have one question for you.
1) If he was a mod at BeatKing instead of UTC, would you bash Beatking just because you dislike Seph?



He is a representative of UTC and should be an ambassador for your site.

he is a Super Moderator at UTC, this you have correct.To insinuate that by being a super moderator for UTC he has to give up his right to have and share his opinion as a Member of another site is really just plain ignorant.( Please notice, I said the insinuation was ignorant, not you)



Then he does nothing but post negative crap about ZP and its members.

IMHO, your negativity toward members of zeropaid is much worse than his, especially with the newer members..



Seriously, how long do you think a zeropaid moderator would last at UTC if they went over there with a link to zeropaid in their sig the words "EX-UTCer" in their avatar and did nothing but slam UTC, criticise its moderators and flame the members? 10 minutes? maybe 5?

I'm a little confused by this, Ill take a stab at it the best I can, forgive me if I am way off base, and feel free to correct me.
1) Lion7718 is no longer a staff member with utc. He is still a member. He has a sig that not only has the name of his site on it, but it also links to his site. He has also voiced his opinion, or dislike if you will, over different things that have been done or said. Hes not banned. He also not so respectfully gave Unite his opinion of him in another forum, directly to Unite, and is still not banned from UTC, nor will he be banned for respectfully expressing his opinion.


2) UTC has a specific section for feedback. This section is for expressing dislikes of the forum, suggesting changes, offering advise on the forums etc..
We also have a section called "sour milk" This is the section for members to respectfully post about shitty experiences they have had with other sites. This is where and how Nulls posted his complaint about what had happened here.

Your right, in the past shit like this would have gotten someone banned. The Rules have changed, for better or for worse. All I can say is if you don't like the new rules, don't visit the site.



Besides Sephiroth didn't exactly help things when he tried to provoke crap by starting that ridiculous thread over at UTC. A similar thread would have been closed here instantly (and in fact was).

I saw that thread here from the beginning, clear through to the end. There was more than one person asking for that thread to be closed here, long before the UTC bashing started, and it was left open. As a matter of fact it was hours after the bashing that it was closed. The comments about UTC were removed only after Nulls posted his thread at UTC. LOTD and I were working together on a decision to solve the problem before it got out of hand. The problem with simply locking a thread after someone has flamed another person, or site, is that the damage is already done. The comments are still there for anyone and everyone to see at any given time.

Think of it like this: You can say "strike that from the record" in court, but the jury has already heard it, the immediate damage is already done, how ever, Future damage is avoided by removing the said information.

Nulls walked a very fine line when he posted at UTC, and was very careful not to cross that line. I am the one who refused to edit, close, or delete that thread. He did not break any of the rules by making that post.

All I ask from you is to please refrain from negative comments about UTC.

[grab_grab_the_haddock]

Most of your post can be answered by clearing up a few misunderstandings.

1) I haven't been bashing your site. I think it was racknrail who really went off on one about UTC.

2)I never said seph doesn’t have a right to express his opinion. The point I was making was that he can’t expect to be critical all the time without being criticised in return.

3)Seph was hardly “respectfully expressing his opinion”. He was calling people “moron” and “idiot”. Basically he was flaming. Not that I have a problem with flaming, but it’s stupid to flame someone then run off whining to another forum because someone flames back.

4)Whether or not I am more negative than sephiroth is irrelevant. I’m not the one who is bitching about the way I’m treated. If seph can’t handle criticism he should quit being so critical.

I disagree that seph’s posts here can be isolated from his role at UTC. Most people here know which site he represents and he advertises UTC in his sig every time he makes a post. If he does nothing but bitch he will often be seen as the bitter UTC guy coming over here to bash and whine. Maybe you don’t like it and maybe it’s not fair, but that’s just the way a lot of people will read it.

BTW the thread I mentioned which got closed was a different one from the one you’re talking about. The first one was a thread which had nothing to do with UTC and only went that way after seph stuck his oar in with his usual negative crap. There was a second thread made by some clone which linked to seph’s thread at UTC and was immediately closed.


Your right, in the past shit like this would have gotten someone banned. The Rules have changed, for better or for worse. All I can say is if you don't like the new rules, don't visit the site.

Perhaps my analogy of a ZP mod posting negatively at UTC was off base. Perhaps the rules have changed. I did wonder about this when I visited the site recently and checked out your new porn section – nicely done BTW. Maybe I just found another site to start spamming up. cheers!

[uselesscrap]

Most of your post can be answered by clearing up a few misunderstandings.

1) I haven't been bashing your site. I think it was racknrail who really went off on one about UTC.

2)I never said seph doesn’t have a right to express his opinion. The point I was making was that he can’t expect to be critical all the time without being criticised in return.

3)Seph was hardly “respectfully expressing his opinion”. He was calling people “moron” and “idiot”. Basically he was flaming. Not that I have a problem with flaming, but it’s stupid to flame someone then run off whining to another forum because someone flames back.

4)Whether or not I am more negative than sephiroth is irrelevant. I’m not the one who is bitching about the way I’m treated. If seph can’t handle criticism he should quit being so critical.

I disagree that seph’s posts here can be isolated from his role at UTC. Most people here know which site he represents and he advertises UTC in his sig every time he makes a post. If he does nothing but bitch he will often be seen as the bitter UTC guy coming over here to bash and whine. Maybe you don’t like it and maybe it’s not fair, but that’s just the way a lot of people will read it.

BTW the thread I mentioned which got closed was a different one from the one you’re talking about. The first one was a thread which had nothing to do with UTC and only went that way after seph stuck his oar in with his usual negative crap. There was a second thread made by some clone which linked to seph’s thread at UTC and was immediately closed.



Perhaps my analogy of a ZP mod posting negatively at UTC was off base. Perhaps the rules have changed. I did wonder about this when I visited the site recently and checked out your new porn section – nicely done BTW. Maybe I just found another site to start spamming up. cheers!

go ahead and pass the buck dude.

try and blame me next time if you like