Which target market is buying all the CDs? [Archive]

Psilaxs

June 23rd, 2003, 12:27 PM

I am a file trader yes.

But i am getting so sick of this anti corporate mentality that you all seem to carry upon your shoulders for all to see very clearly.

They have every right to make money, whether we agree with it or not.

We do not, so we have other methods of obtaining what we want.

But "sticking it" to the big guy attitude all the time, not only makes some people look ignorant, but can also negatively impact industry overall.

Some people may have issues with the automotive, software,PC
industries, would like to see a crusade to bring those down as well?

Yes, the riaa may screw the artist, but the record industry employs more people then you can imagine.

eruhk

June 23rd, 2003, 12:34 PM

when i realized that i could buy an album on cd for around 15 dollars or the same album on vinyl for 10.. i pretty much stopped altogether. i'll buy cds when it's worth the money and there isn't a vinyl version.

or if you just meant buying MUSIC.. i splurge about 100 dollars a month on music over a lot of mediums. some i've downloaded and listened to before, some not. just if it's worth it, it's available and i can afford it, i'll buy it. downloading music probably only makes me buy more.

eruhk

June 23rd, 2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Psilaxs
I am a file trader yes.

But i am getting so sick of this anti corporate mentality that you all seem to carry upon your shoulders for all to see very clearly.

They have every right to make money, whether we agree with it or not.

We do not, so we have other methods of obtaining what we want.

But "sticking it" to the big guy attitude all the time, not only makes some people look ignorant, but can also negatively impact industry overall.

Some people may have issues with the automotive, software,PC
industries, would like to see a crusade to bring those down as well?

Yes, the riaa may screw the artist, but the record industry employs more people then you can imagine.

hear hear. if you're going to take a free-trade mentality, you take the whole thing, not just the parts you find ethically convenient.

Lamourlady

June 24th, 2003, 09:11 AM

hear ye, hear ye!!!

v3rt1go

June 24th, 2003, 02:43 PM

While i am truly against the record industry i think a marketing strategy that would work for them would be to sell their cd's for 5 dollars a piece it would work because people would buy bucket loads of cd's.

Also don't give me that crap that no one makes money at $5 a cd my band sold our cd's for 5 bones a piece and we made a bundle we covered our recording costs in a week

Power Penguin

June 24th, 2003, 02:52 PM

People with more money than sense. Period.

ATLien

June 24th, 2003, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by v3rt1go
While i am truly against the record industry i think a marketing strategy that would work for them would be to sell their cd's for 5 dollars a piece it would work because people would buy bucket loads of cd's.

Also don't give me that crap that no one makes money at $5 a cd my band sold our cd's for 5 bones a piece and we made a bundle we covered our recording costs in a week

Yea! Especially since it only take a $1.87, to make a freakin' CD.

isus

June 24th, 2003, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by ATLien
Yea! Especially since it only take a $1.87, to make a freakin' CD.

well, it's actually more than that, once you figure in the cost of your comp... but if buy a spindle pack (50 cd's for $20), then it's possible :-P

crackerjacker

June 24th, 2003, 03:12 PM

actually to make a cd doesnt really cost much money.
if you buy a spindle of cds *50 pack* for 10 dollars and get a rebate of 10 dollars you pay nothing.
man i had 2 rebates i should of send back for *but i just didnt feel like it*.

but a cd does not cost alot to produce.
maybe 25 cents is all.
the packaging and stuff costs extra.
I mean the artistry of it all is nice too.

i have brought plenty of cds in the past but honestly much of the music i am into now are indie and metal.
so i will support artists who are productive and will buy there cds.

Matter of fact as of late i have come across some good music.
peace*

MauerPower

June 24th, 2003, 03:38 PM

Isn't country music the only genre not taking a significant loss in their sales right now? Plus, I have bought CDs when it is more convenient than downloading them. An example is the Black Sabbath Best of Import and in the near future maybe Zeppelin's new How the West Was Won.

ThePillarOfAutumn

June 24th, 2003, 03:42 PM

YOUR parents grandparents and all the white people - cause mexicans aint paying for shhhiiiiit

Psilaxs

June 24th, 2003, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by Dealie
SO start buying all your cd's and stop pirating on p2p. but dont preach to the rest of the p2p community who has had enough and realizes that the music industry is a dead idea whos time is up.

The music industry is outdated. Why should we give a damm if you and them are too blind to see it.

SO you feel we should support all outdated industrys? When the plane replaced the train for cross country transport we should have all stuck with the train just to support them?? When the phone replaced the telegraph we should never have switched?. All of these industrys supported thousands of employess and they still went under. Its called PROGRESS!

Maybe you feel we should never have switched from LP or cassette in the first place? Those formats employed tons of people too you know..

The music industry is just a way to get your money from you to the artist.. Well guess what! We dont need them for this anymore. Any artist with no clue even can have a website setup and sell his cd's direct to the user. AND make way more than the pittance they are being paid now for the same thing..

SO do you just like to argue or do you really feel that progress is a bad thing? Or maybe you work for the riaa and are finally tired of people bitching...

You better start your own campaign to tell everyone how great the music industry is and why we should support them. And stop using p2p and pay full price for all your crappy overhyped cd's with 2 good songs and a bunch of filler.

hypocrite

How can you call me a hypocrite?

I never said we should support the RIAA etc. I am taking off my blinders and looking at things from more then one angle, instead of through a tube.

Now, how can you say i am against progress?
See the problem is, all the the things you mentioned
trains cassettes etc, were all replaced with something that is economically viable for companies.

Where as the p2p model is not, because nothing is paid for.
That isn't progress, that is economic loss.

I understand p2p has advantages, such as exposing new artists etc. But you cannot compare downloading music for free and the human race moving from trains to cars etc.

Progress is making things more efficient, and while it may be more efficient for us to download rather then buy, this is a suicidal business model for any company.

Psilaxs

June 24th, 2003, 09:53 PM

Dealie,

You seem to think i disagree with you, i do not.

I agree they had a chance, and that they blew it.

I actually think 50 cents per song is too much, and should just create a filesharing program and have a flat monthly fee of 5 bucks or so.

So, no need to try and explain everything to me I agree with you for the most part, and my original post wasn't intendid to stir up shit.

Just companies arent the end all evil that a lot seem to think they are.

ATLien

June 24th, 2003, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by isus
well, it's actually more than that, once you figure in the cost of your comp... but if buy a spindle pack (50 cd's for $20), then it's possible :-P

No, i was talking about the music industry. The avg. cost of putting out a music cd is $1.87! This includes everything, believe it or not. I'm not talking about buying blank disc.

Psilaxs

June 25th, 2003, 02:27 AM

Dealie, all those things you mentioned were actions of the RIAA and MUSIC LABELS.

I said COMPANIES aren't the end all evil.
I didnt say "The riaa and record companies are not the evil of the world.

Yeesh, when was the last time Proctor and Gamble sued a customer? or GM or Ford or Intel or AMD or Ingersoll-rand?

Most of the evils that you hate the record companies for are the very things consumers do to companies every day, trying to screw them over and "stick it to the man dude":mellow

Allis

June 25th, 2003, 03:32 AM

It doesnt matter if MP3s cost 5 cents or 5 dollars to download, you would still rather get them for NOTHING. You would like to get other things for free as well, but It's not so easy to get a FREE pair of $100 sneakers from behind your PC screen.

Some people just dont like paying for anything.The sort of person who would skip the rail fare if there was no ticket inspector. Cheapasses, basically.

Record companies aren't evil. Thats a really, really stupid thing to say. I think you know that anyway.

Trying to turn P2P into some moral crusade on behalf of people who didnt ask you ( the artists) is stupid.

You just like getting stuff for free.

Cheapass.

Mel_Smiley

June 25th, 2003, 03:44 AM

You mean you can buy music already on CD? I've never heard of this. Don't think I would like it much, nope im sure I wouldn't. Im not paying for radio either XM. How the hell do they know what im in the mood to hear

Induna

June 25th, 2003, 05:45 AM

I agree with Allis. It makes me laugh when people come up with these ridiculous justifications for downloading copywrited material. "The industry charged me $10 too much for every CD I've bought. I 've bought 200 CDs so that's $2000 they owe me. So I'm gonna keep downloading until we're even!"

C'mon man, that's lame. Just admit you're a dirty low-down thief, feeling smug that you're getting all this music for free while saps out there are stil paying for the same product.

meyou123

June 25th, 2003, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by Allis
It doesnt matter if MP3s cost 5 cents or 5 dollars to download, you would still rather get them for NOTHING. You would like to get other things for free as well, but It's not so easy to get a FREE pair of $100 sneakers from behind your PC screen.

So let me get this straight, because we want to get something for a DECENT price we are cheapasses?? Because we are part of a movement that is slowly but surely changing the way the record industry does business, THAT makes us cheapasses? YOU are a fucking hypocrite! DON'T come on this site knowing full well that it is about p2p and try to call every file sharer a cheapass! How do you know what any body on this site has bought? Do you have ESP or something? If not , keep your mouth shut!

Some people just dont like paying for anything.The sort of person who would skip the rail fare if there was no ticket inspector. Cheapasses, basically.

Yes there are those kinds of people, but there are ALSO people who are TIRED of this bullshit "pay for a whole CD or get nothing" (NO SINGLES) CRAP! People ON THE OTHER HAND who would pay for a CD or single at a decent price....just not the price they have set! $20.00 for a stupid CD? YOU pay it!

Record companies aren't evil. Thats a really, really stupid thing to say. I think you know that anyway.

That is a matter of YOUR opinion vs. someone elses! YOURs isn't nesisarrily the right one though!

Trying to turn P2P into some moral crusade on behalf of people who didnt ask you ( the artists) is stupid.

Who the hell said that p2p started as a crusade against anything or anybody? It started as a way for people to share files through the internet.... PERIOD! As far as taking up for the artists, I think that is a good thing...weather you think so or not, KISS MY ASS! I don't think that the legislation that congress has passed requiring record companies to disclose to the artist just how much profit from a CD sale is theirs is a bad thing either....just so you know......this probably would not have even been considered if it wasn't for the awarness that the p2p world has made of the treatment of artists by record company execs!

You just like getting stuff for free.

FUCK YOU! So what if I do!

Cheapass.

HYPOCRITE!

Allis

June 25th, 2003, 06:59 AM

OK

Ignoring your poor grammar, bad spelling and insulting remarks, I will try to answer your various points.

1) I am allowed to express an opinion, either pro-P2P, or anti-P2P, on these boards. If you dont like hearing opinions alternative to yours, then I suggest you don't use online forums.

I am not a hypocrite because I have different opinions to you.

2) Define what a "decent" price for a CD is. Then let me have evidence supporting how you concluded what a "decent" price is. Would you rather pay $5 for a CD, or download it for free from Kazaa? What if you were unemployed? Would your opinion on what constitutes a "decent" price change?

3) What else are you doing to change the way the record industry operates? If you're only sitting at your PC downloading music for free, then I suggest you're contributing very little. Have you wrote to any trade or consumer rights organisations? Have you wrote to your congressman?

4) $20 for a CD? I suggest you order online. New release CDs are available online in the UK for around $13 / £9, including postage. Note, the UK is typically more expensive than the US for just about everything.

5) How much did you pay for those new sneakers? Those jeans? That MP3 player? How much did they cost to manufacture? How much did the 60 year old Philippino worker get paid for that 14 hour day? What's the profit mark-up? Were you happy to pay that amount?

Did you do anything to advance the rights of this Philippino worker? Or was that too much effort? Did you even think about their conditions?

Now, compare those conditions to those of a multi-million dollar recording artist. Then ask yourself why you think these multi-million dollar recording artists deserve your support more than the Philippino sweat-shop worker.

6) Definition of 'crusade'

n 1: a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end

You did say you wanted to change the way a whole industry operates. So therefor I would argue that YOU said it was a crusade.

7) It's been common knowledge that artists typically earn 5% to 15% on CD sales, so I'm not sure what difference this new legislation makes. They agreed to these figures when they signed their recording contract. They don't need congress to tell them the terms of a contract that they just signed.

If an artist doesn't want a big company producing, distributing, and marketing their music they don't sign with them.

Ne007

June 25th, 2003, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by Psilaxs
They have every right to make money, whether we agree with it or not.

Umm.....No......there is NO RIGHT to make money in a Republic or Democratic society. If there is a demand for a product, then people make money......

This is a VERY VERY wrong statement that sickens me. Just because they (RIAA) are a big organization.......doesn't give them ANY powers above each and every one of us. THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE LOADS OF MONEY. NO RIGHT....THAT RIGHT DOESN'T EXIST.

Man....that dude is brainwashed.

Allis

June 25th, 2003, 07:57 AM

It's not a wrong statement, you just mis-interpreted it.

You also have every right to make money.

Do you see?

Ne007

June 25th, 2003, 07:58 AM

No....there isn't any RIGHT to make money....period. ESPECIALLY in sales....if people don't want to buy your product...they aren't going to buy it.

THere isn't anything in the Constitution that says "You have the Right to make money". That is the Communist government.

We live in a society where you work, or develop and sell a product in which people want...but it is not GUARANTEED to sell or make money. People DO NOT have to give you money if they so choose not to.

Ne007

June 25th, 2003, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by Dealie
They are evil in that they only see the bottom line.

And they are evil for not accepting new ideas that could have made them a ton of money.

They are also evil for suing all their damm customers and just being general asswipes.

They are also evil for complaining about a 4% loss in profit in one of the worst economys ever. And blaming it on p2p.

I hate em. I WOULD go out of my way to kick a record exec in the nads. It'd make me feel better. And on my way out key his lexus.

Edit.

They are also evil for wanting to infect our computers to prevent p2p sharing.

They are also evil for wanting to damage our computers to punish p2p users.

They are also evil for spending millions to get new laws passed so they can have new ways to screw us.

They are also evil for how they treat the artist as slaves.

They are also evil for paying companys to flood p2p networks with garbage and fake crap.

They are also evil for (maybe) dosing bit torrent trackers off the net.

Man i could go on for ages...

You NAILED it. They ARE evil and I won't let them take away my freedoms.

Allis

June 25th, 2003, 08:15 AM

Allis

June 25th, 2003, 08:22 AM

Originally posted by Dealie
So... what are you doing on a p2p portal anyways?

I am on a P2P portal because I like getting music for free.

Probably the same reason you are here, though you pretend you have an agenda.

If you could provide a satisfactory answer to point 5 from my previous post I would have more respect for your opinion that record companies are evil and that you're a moral crusader for all that is good and proper.

Usage of over-emotional words like "evil" add nothing to the pro-P2P argument, and neither do flippant, irrelevant one-liners.

Psilaxs

June 25th, 2003, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by Ne007
No....there isn't any RIGHT to make money....period. ESPECIALLY in sales....if people don't want to buy your product...they aren't going to buy it.

THere isn't anything in the Constitution that says "You have the Right to make money". That is the Communist government.

We live in a society where you work, or develop and sell a product in which people want...but it is not GUARANTEED to sell or make money. People DO NOT have to give you money if they so choose not to.

Well, your hearts in the right place, that is certain.

Ok, when I say companies/individuals have a right to make money, what I mean is. They have a right to develop and market a product and see if it sells.

You are confusing the "RIGHT" to make money with stealing.(E.G Strong arming the consumer into buying it some how: Imagine, the recording industry gestapo, "You better pay or Ve Vill make you pay!")

People have the right to make develop or produce products or intellectual property and sell them on the open market.

How this equates into communism I have no clue.

Whereas in communism, you have no right (for those who may disagree: lets not split hairs here, just go along for the sake of argument) to start a company run it as you see fit, and determine prices etc.

If companies do not have the right to make money, then you do not have the right to find a job and earn a living.

If you were to see your ideology to fruition some how, you be screwing yourself out of making a living.
(and Millions of others)

Allis

June 25th, 2003, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by Dealie
Ok... i can do that.

I paid what they were worth. And unlike music you have many many choices on where to buy your sneakers, jeans, and mp3 players. you dont HAVE to support the companys that utilize slave labor. But the music industry has a virtual monopoly on the entire scene.. They have no competition and are fighting hard to keep it that way. And unlike music the markup on most other goods is in a reasonable range and the actual maker of the product is making most of that. Unlike music where the actual artist gets a few cents and the record co keeps the rest.

You didn't pay what they were worth. You paid what price the market dictated they were worth. Simple economics.

Do you really believe that the mark-up on $100 Nikes is reasonable?

You are not forced to support any company. After all, you live in the US, land of the free.

The artist doesn't get a few cents, they get what's in their contract, probably ranging from 5% to 15% of each sale.

There are plenty of other distribution models for artists not wanting to sign with multi-nationals. The fact that they may not get their first video show on TRL is entirely their choice.

If you think the RIAA is abusing its monolopy position I hope you have contacted your congressman to express your dis-satisfaction. If Microsoft can get busted, so can the RIAA.

If an artist doesn't want a big company producing, distributing, and marketing their music they don't sign with them.

Ne007

June 25th, 2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Psilaxs
You are confusing the "RIGHT" to make money with stealing.(E.G Strong arming the consumer into buying it some how: Imagine, the recording industry gestapo, "You better pay or Ve Vill make you pay!")

That is EXACTLY what I feel the RIAA is doing....strong arming the consumer with scare tactics, possible lawsuits and with the development of new laws which take away from our current freedoms.

Who cares about copyright infringement laws that were past by the CORRUPT government officials that were "bought out"?

Ne007

June 25th, 2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Psilaxs
Ok, when I say companies/individuals have a right to make money, what I mean is. They have a right to develop and market a product and see if it sells.

Well....I can tell the RIAA that I"M NOT BUYING. I will never buy anything from them again.....unless I can download for 5 cents per song. It gets the music industry sick to see their "BIG FAT CASH COW" waking up to the fact that we don't have to give them our money. We can give others our music. We can make our own music. We can DISTRIBUTE our own music. I think the later is what is scaring them the most.......WE DON'T NEED THEM!

I believe NOONE in ANY industry deserves to make ANY more than the hard-working middle class.........be it a baseball player or rock star........especially corporate executives..........if only we could take MORE of their money.

As for me....I perform medical services for the community....take us away and you die. I work my ass off to save peoples lives, and to help people, and it gets me sick that these corporate "bigwigs" make MUCH MUCH more than I do.

2001team

June 25th, 2003, 12:32 PM

You also have to bear in mind, they aren't losing that much money as you think, they are mearly losing their profit margin, a big difference from saying that you're in a negative terratory like Enron. Don't let their bitching fool you, they're still making money, just not as much as they were at their peek in 1999 or 2000.

Psilaxs

June 25th, 2003, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by Ne007
That is EXACTLY what I feel the RIAA is doing....strong arming the consumer with scare tactics, possible lawsuits and with the development of new laws which take away from our current freedoms.

Who cares about copyright infringement laws that were past by the CORRUPT government officials that were "bought out"?

You still dont get it.

What i am saying is, they can and will NEVER be able to do anything to you if you decide not to buy their product.

Of course if you decide to get it for free then, can you not understand them for going after what they see as a threat?

Psilaxs

June 25th, 2003, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by Ne007
Well....I can tell the RIAA that I"M NOT BUYING. I will never buy anything from them again.....unless I can download for 5 cents per song. It gets the music industry sick to see their "BIG FAT CASH COW" waking up to the fact that we don't have to give them our money. We can give others our music. We can make our own music. We can DISTRIBUTE our own music. I think the later is what is scaring them the most.......WE DON'T NEED THEM!

Ok, I can give you this one, but if we don't need them, do not download anything produced by riaa affiliated record companies. What's that?? Some of your favorite music is produced by record companies that are members of the riaa??
You also listen to the radio? Say it aint so!!

Originally posted by Ne007
I believe NOONE in ANY industry deserves to make ANY more than the hard-working middle class.........be it a baseball player or rock star........especially corporate executives..........if only we could take MORE of their money.

If you actually believe this you are very ignorant, if they didn't have the right to make more money then you, then how in the hell are you going to get paid? If the company is not allowed to make more then you, how can they afford to pay everyone?

Also, i want some of your money, no really, i KNOW you make more then me considering your line of work, so cough it up. (you have no right to make more money then me)

Originally posted by Ne007

As for me....I perform medical services for the community....take us away and you die. I work my ass off to save peoples lives, and to help people, and it gets me sick that these corporate "bigwigs" make MUCH MUCH more than I do.

Awww, well isn't that just too bad, Your going to have a hard time on this forum then, because there are a lot of professionals here that make a hell of a lot more then the both of us combined

What it comes down to is, You feel you were cheated somehow,
and you deserve just as much as they do, and it isn't right for someone else to succeed. Get used to it. Life isn't fair

This isn't intendid as a flame, honest.

Ne007

June 25th, 2003, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by Psilaxs
What it comes down to is, You feel you were cheated somehow,
and you deserve just as much as they do, and it isn't right for someone else to succeed. Get used to it. Life isn't fair

Yeh....I keep saying that to the RIAA :devil Yeh...I feel like they cheated me....I'm saying that over and over and over.

All I can say is that the market sets the price of a product. I believe that a song is worth 5 cents. Can the RIAA argue with that now that there is P2P and CD ripping? LOL...no they can't! The market will NOT give them what they are asking for their product. I'm NOT going to cry for them.

There is no argument here....with P2P and CD ripping...the music industries product is not worth what they are asking. They need to reshape their product and stop attacking their target market.