Gnutella Is Down But Not Out

[napho]

Lets be honest. Gnutella has been surpassed by many other networks. We know their names. It's always been considered a developers' network, great for new coders but not so good for users. I can feel the interest in Gnutella waning, and without all the hype it'll be exposed as a very weak sister in the p2p world. Still it can recover and be a factor in the future but for now it really blows.

[Theinfamousone]

Interesting that it is coming back up. It's a good sign. I wonder what impact Shareaza has had.

[ROMANTICGUY50]

I have not used Gnutella for a long long time. When I first starting file sharing I did. I now use Kazaalite K++ RC16.( I heard that RC17 is out but I went to the test link and it took me to the regular download site.) I do use Gnutella every so often but I also use Imesh Clean and others. I like it. I hear they are talking about improvements and that would be cool. Most of the major programs have spyware and aware and that sucks. Limewire, Freewire. Aqualime is cool cause it does not have any adware and spyware. That's the one I use. I also use Shareaza as well cause it includes Gnutella and Gutella2.

[nasrules]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
Interesting that it is coming back up. It's a good sign. I wonder what impact Shareaza has had.

A big one!

[Captain_FLX]

Hmmmmm I dont think i've ever seen Gnutella pass 1,000,000 users and i dont think it's ever going to I'm NOT interested in Gnutella but i think they havent passed the 1,000,000 user base cause maybe their Technology ? wont support it? because with SO many clients out there from limewire to Bearshare and Shareaza they still cant pass the 1,000,000 user base which FastTrack with only Imesh Grokster Kazaa and @ 1 time Morpheus they sometimes are close to 5,000,000 Users so i dont know what's wrong with Gnutella @ 1 time when Morpheus bearly joined it hit the 500,000 users but i've never seen it hit that much anymore i bearly see it go to 150,000 users

[Sephiroth]

the stats are very inefficient because it cant count leaves on some ultrapeers and there is no way that it counts every host on the network.

The real number is alot higher than that at least 4 times higher or more. The reason why its higher is because its summer and alot more students are using gntella now than during the school year.

Also since i dont think some people here know but the latest shareaza beta doesnt connect to gntuella anymore on default. Many internet users dont care about spyware or adware either so that doesnt really hold programs back. Many of the programs you can install, use a adware cleaner to erase any of the programs they install and continue to use it. So i think it is a big issue anymore.

[triniti]

If every servent was UDP capable then we could get a lot better read out by sending just on broadcast. Gnutella needs to become more protocol hybrid.

[isus]

well, im sure some of it is college kids coming home... although all the college kids i know came home awhile ago?

[Matt]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
the stats are very inefficient because it cant count leaves on some ultrapeers and there is no way that it counts every host on the network.
Ok, I can accept this for what it is and i agree. But gnutella and fasttrack are very fluid, so no user count can be accurate.

The real number is alot higher than that at least 4 times higher or more. The reason why its higher is because its summer and alot more students are using gntella now than during the school year.
Umm ok...this is where I have a problem. Show me your proof and I'll agree, but until then it's the same as me saying "Ares is as big as KaZaA, you just don't know it yet" These are released by the company and obviously they want to make a good impression. So if anything they're being generous with their user count.

Also since i dont think some people here know but the latest shareaza beta doesnt connect to gntuella anymore on default. Many internet users dont care about spyware or adware either so that doesnt really hold programs back. Many of the programs you can install, use a adware cleaner to erase any of the programs they install and continue to use it. So i think it is a big issue anymore.
People do care about ads and spyware, yes, even your little KaZaA newbies. I will never use Bearshare because it has ads and spyware. The same goes for KaZaA. People don't know about spyware removers or adware removers either. And Shareaza doesn't do it by default, in it's quickstart section it asks what you want to do! So you're incorrect in what you say on multiple accounts. Better luck next time. -Matt

[cheapprick]

Holy shit Matt, comedy at it's finest.

People do care about ads and spyware, yes, even your little KaZaA newbies. I will never use Bearshare because it has ads and spyware. The same goes for KaZaA. People don't know about spyware removers or adware removers either. And Shareaza doesn't do it by default, in it's quickstart section it asks what you want to do! So you're incorrect in what you say on multiple accounts. Better luck next time.

Everyone knows what a big fanboy of Kazaa Seph has always been. Can we now witness a touching rendition of the Sephiroth vs. Morgwen mod spats of the past?

[Deep Thought]

Hahaha. I sincerely doubt that Shareaza had much of an impact on the gnutella network. Both Limewire and Bearshare have larger userbases and all Shareaza ever did to/for gnutella was use it's content so that Mike didn't have to develop a network protocol immediately then essentially abandon it because it was suddenly "inferior". Amazingly his Precious MP never even reached half the size of the original gnutella network. I'm glad to see that Gnutella is recovering, although if you use the latest Limewire betas you can see why. For the first time ever almost all of my downloads are successful and fast on gnutella.

[TipYourBartender]

It will be interesting to see what happens with Gnutella when (not if, when!!!) FastTrack gets shut down.

[Wings_of_Azrael]

I've tried the new LimeWire 3.0.0 beta and it is pretty nice. I love the black skin. Also, for the few files it has, the downloads are reliable and speedy. When/If it grows to a million+ users, the big thing is going to be how much of the network can a user access at any given time without harming the network. That's going to be the big variable for me in the future; right now it's not a primary source for anything.

Still, the fact that most of Gnutella's future users would be flooding in from FastTrack seems like a put off. People with a bunch of files they d/led from Kazaa are like retarded zombies with one eye hanging out of the socket. They'll be bringing with them corrupted video files, game rips with corrupted portions, low bitrate music files and no complete albums, and crummy pornos. They're like the kid in the back of the class who eats glue and wipes his boogers on the desk. It's like, "eww, stay away!" I think it would be better to just take content from Usenet and IRC and even have some original releases so Gnutella won't be like FT's little cousin with down syndrome.

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Very True Wings of Azrael

Who the hell would want kazaa kiddies coming over and polluting a network like that?

Please..its just too sad to think about

The only thing kazaa is good for is popular content...everything else is shit quality

[Crazy Horse]

It's doubtful that Gnutella (in any form or client(s)) will reach 1 million users. Unless something drastic happens in the way of their protocol they will never reach that plateau. They have been around as long or longer as many of the other programs that have already surpassed their user base. Even if FastTrack were shut down I still don't think people would flock to Gnutella. Newer versions of WinMx and others are on the horizon. Gnutella needs to get "drastic"

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Matt
Umm ok...this is where I have a problem. Show me your proof and I'll agree,

So you're incorrect in what you say on multiple accounts. Better luck next time. -Matt [/B]

The fact that it happens every year now and that i think the count was being worked on to make it a little more accurate which would explain it.

Is the "gnutella1" boxed checked? I didnt think it was and since i dont install shareaza daily im sorry i didnt memorize the first run dialog boxes. Which i just clicked through and it doesnt connect to "g1" at all, i never said it never gave the option just that it no longer did it on default. Since you probably didnt do a clean install of the latest beta it retained your past settings.

For someone who only shows up once every few months you sound a little too sure of yourself. I could go futher on how you personally have screwed over this site so badly in the past and all the shit that you caused on the forums and dissapeared leaving me to deal with but another ill save that for another time.

[napho]

I did 4 minute searches on LimeWire and Kazaa++ for albw.
LimeWire had 102 results. Kazaa++ had over 2900. That's where the 2 networks stand as of right now. And yes, that black LimeWire skin looks sharp.

[John W. Lindh]

LimeWire is limitting the search results. There is no way to even 500 results for any search as long as you are connected to LimeWire ultrapeers.

[Matt]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
The fact that it happens every year now and that i think the count was being worked on to make it a little more accurate which would explain it.

Is the "gnutella1" boxed checked? I didnt think it was and since i dont install shareaza daily im sorry i didnt memorize the first run dialog boxes. Which i just clicked through and it doesnt connect to "g1" at all, i never said it never gave the option just that it no longer did it on default. Since you probably didnt do a clean install of the latest beta it retained your past settings.

For someone who only shows up once every few months you sound a little too sure of yourself. I could go futher on how you personally have screwed over this site so badly in the past and all the shit that you caused on the forums and dissapeared leaving me to deal with but another ill save that for another time.

Ok...well let me begin my little rant by explaining that you quite possibly have no idea what you're talking about. NO boxes with the exception of G2 are checked by default, yes I know this, but it gives the user the option when they first install and then whenever they want in the network section.

My really enjoy your sweet comments because I take them as a feeling of warmth. I would appreciate you going further either here or in the Crib because personally I have no idea how I've
"screwed over this site so badly". If you could clue me in that would be excellent. I believe I was the one who recommended you for mod, but I could be mistaken. Either way I would like to see that because I think you took offense to what I said in my previous posts. Take them the way you like because either way it does not phase me.

Have a great day and I wish you the best. -Matt

[Theinfamousone]

I think I agree with Nas that Shareaza has had a huge impact. Bigger than most people think. The reason gnutella never passed the 1 million user point is just because at the time that Kazaa came out, it was in the stone ages. Didn't allow multisourcing or ultrapeers or supernodes or whatever you want to call it, the clients were boring and unstable and on and on. The searching has always been faster and more complete in Kazaa (gnutella just seems to ununified) and it was always simple and user friendly. Kazaa had everything everyone needed. I picked it up and 2 years later have never put it down. Gnutella is starting to pick up the pieces, and if push comes to shove, it will become very popular. Shareaza has made me actually use Gnutella 1 again, and I'm actually liking it.

We need a comparison between Limewire 3, Bearshare (newest version) and Shareaza 1.9 beta (without eDonkey or G2).

Obviously it will depend on how long your connected and stuff, but the results should help a little. I might try it, but I'm working all the time now. One of you college kids that are out for the summer should do it. Throw in Winmx, Ares and Kazaa if you want too.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Matt
Ok...well let me begin my little rant by explaining that you quite possibly have no idea what you're talking about. NO boxes with the exception of G2 are checked by default, yes I know this, but it gives the user the option when they first install and then whenever they want in the network section.


Really do you think that the average user is going to know to connect to gnutella by default? NO which was my point because most people just click through those menus and they will never check the box. I never said that it couldnt connect to gnutella i said that it didnt do it by default.

Since i dont think you get what that means since now your pretty much saying what i orginally said but it means that the user has to manually check or configure it to. Which mean many noobs wont do it and so they wont connect to gnutella.

As for the other part of your post. Your didnt reccomend me, i volunteered and again you cannot go off on your own anymore and if you do then there will be nothing but problems.

[NovaP2P]

In the past few months ive noticed Gnutella delivering significantly more search results and having many more available ultrapeers.

I believe this is mainly due to Morpheus (which has the biggest market share in Gnutella afaik) using GnucDNA which by default gives it ultrapeer ability and recently full tigertree support (among other things).

As long as GnucDNA development keeps up the Gnutella network should improve alot more imo.

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by NovaP2P
In the past few months ive noticed Gnutella delivering significantly more search results and having many more available ultrapeers.

I believe this is mainly due to Morpheus (which has the biggest market share in Gnutella afaik) using GnucDNA which by default gives it ultrapeer ability and recently full tigertree support (among other things).

As long as GnucDNA development keeps up the Gnutella network should improve alot more imo.

Yes, that's very true

I actually had the courage to try out LimeWire yesterday and it actually kicked ass...I connected real quick, got a ton of FAST search results, and I got 80k+ on the downloads

[richiwish]

the eD2k is the network of the future and its userbase is growing astronomically, which is mainly due to its open source nature - I use the eD2k/Gnutella client MindGem and looking at the live network stats there is currently 2,334,427 clients connected!
You can see live eD2k stats here too: http://www.mindgem.com/experience/modules/eD2k/ed2k/ed2k.php
but they're not pretty and graphical like in the MindGem client.

Know any other sites besides www.mindgem.com that provide live network stats? It would be nice to compare.

[John W. Lindh]

??? MindGem is most obviously just an eMule clone, it doesn't connect to Gnutella. ed2k is probably not the network of the future, - not as long as it still uses servers.

I usually get my network stats from www.slyck.com btw.

[richiwish]

www.slyck.com's an excellent site, thanks for the tip!

[ccc1005]

Shareaza has made me actually use Gnutella 1 again, and I'm actually liking it.
Ya sure, the "Gnutella" client that doesn't even connect to the real Gnutella anymore. All I think it did was push the other real Gnutella developers along to get more features to compete with Shareaza, and they sure have done a good job.

Just one example, Bearshare takes literally 2 seconds to connect to ultrapeers, whereas Shareaza was taking minutes (I dont know if 2.0 fixed this or not)



In the past few months ive noticed Gnutella delivering significantly more search results and having many more available ultrapeers.

I believe this is mainly due to Morpheus (which has the biggest market share in Gnutella afaik) using GnucDNA which by default gives it ultrapeer ability and recently full tigertree support (among other things).

As long as GnucDNA development keeps up the Gnutella network should improve alot more imo.
I would also like to point out that Bearshare has incorportated network stats which can be seen here www.bearshare.com/stats (http://www.bearshare.com/stats), the increase is mostly due to people upgrading to the new version, but it still shows a gooa 130,000 userbase, probably more like 150-200k consider others have older versions of Bearshare, and this is only 1 Gnutella client.


If you try out the latest Bearshare I think you will be surprised at the number of search results you get (I got over 1500+ for a popular song) this is because they started getting alt-locations with the search hits, so you get a ton more sources. And as more people realize just how much better Guntella is than FastTrack, Gnutella will keep on growing.

[ccc1005]

I usually get my network stats from www.slyck.com (http://www.slyck.com/) btw.
I am not sure if these account for the Bearshare nodes as well, anyone know for sure?

[ccc1005]

People do care about ads and spyware, yes, even your little KaZaA newbies. I will never use Bearshare because it has ads and spyware. The same goes for KaZaA. People don't know about spyware removers or adware removers either. And Shareaza doesn't do it by default, in it's quickstart section it asks what you want to do! So you're incorrect in what you say on multiple accounts. Better luck next time
And its newbies like you who dont know that first of all Bearshare has Adware NOT Spyware (BIG DIFFERENCE), and secondly there is a beta out every day that is Adware free. Or maybe you could just get a Adware programs and see what it finds.. cause every time I install a new beta Ad-aware and Spybot show nothing. So stop saying crap about good programs and give real info to people.

[isamoor]

Sadly, I am going to have to say that Gnutella is nice, but it just won't support a million users. Oh sure, a million users could get on the network, but there's no way you could search the whole network then. Fasttrack only works because of all the self enforced limits (200 search results, only hashing parts of files, other things to cut bandwidth)

I believe the only true serverless network structure that will scale would be the DHT variety like overnet and emule's kademlia. I mean, there's close to a million people on emule's kademlia, but how long does it take to do a search? All of a few seconds. And, that search will return all the sources out there in the whole network, not just the nearby ones.

So yea, Gnutella is nice, especially Limewire these days, but I don't think it ever should climb back to the top.

Later,

Isamoor

[Dark Messenger]

Sadly, I am going to have to say that Gnutella is nice, but it just won't support a million users. Oh sure, a million users could get on the network, but there's no way you could search the whole network then. Fasttrack only works because of all the self enforced limits (200 search results, only hashing parts of files, other things to cut bandwidth)

I believe the only true serverless network structure that will scale would be the DHT variety like overnet and emule's kademlia. I mean, there's close to a million people on emule's kademlia, but how long does it take to do a search? All of a few seconds. And, that search will return all the sources out there in the whole network, not just the nearby ones.

So yea, Gnutella is nice, especially Limewire these days, but I don't think it ever should climb back to the top.

Later,

Isamoor

I've never been able to get Kademelia to connect using the latest emule..would someone please explain to me what black magic or hocus pocus i need to do to get this thing to work?

And is 'kademelia' just another name for the overnet 'severless peer' network or is it its own network and not affiliated with the overnet serverless peer network.

[crackerjacker]

I've never been able to get Kademelia to connect using the latest emule..would someone please explain to me what black magic or hocus pocus i need to do to get this thing to work?

And is 'kademelia' just another name for the overnet 'severless peer' network or is it its own network and not affiliated with the overnet serverless peer network.

um just continue using the donkey ok :)
hehe
===========
*hugs*

[John W. Lindh]

Sadly, I am going to have to say that Gnutella is nice, but it just won't support a million users. Oh sure, a million users could get on the network, but there's no way you could search the whole network then. Fasttrack only works because of all the self enforced limits (200 search results, only hashing parts of files, other things to cut bandwidth)

Gnutella's current search algorithm would support searching up to about a million users at almost no additional cost compared to the 250,000 users you can search now. As far as keyword searches are concerned, Gnutella is probably much more efficient than any other serverless network, including G2, Fasttrack and Overnet.


I believe the only true serverless network structure that will scale would be the DHT variety like overnet and emule's kademlia. I mean, there's close to a million people on emule's kademlia, but how long does it take to do a search? All of a few seconds. And, that search will return all the sources out there in the whole network, not just the nearby ones.
A DHT has its advantages but for keyword searches it is not really usable. In addition it usually does not handle low node uptimes very well and the average Gnutella user disconnects after one or two hours.
For the purpose of simple source-exchange Gnutella's download mesh with every client serving or downloading a file saving all alternate locations does wonders altough a DHT would perform a little better.


So yea, Gnutella is nice, especially Limewire these days, but I don't think it ever should climb back to the top.
I respectfully disagree...

[Miniver]

Gnutella sucks... it's outdated, there's been practically no development in the protocol since it was first envisioned. Gnutella is like the old workhorse that you don't put to sleep 'cause it's still barely able to pull the wagon.

[ccc1005]

Gnutella sucks... it's outdated, there's been practically no development in the protocol since it was first envisioned. Gnutella is like the old workhorse that you don't put to sleep 'cause it's still barely able to pull the wagon.
OMFG, do you even pay attention to anything, want me to list off the incredible number of advancements that have been made... Well, rather than take 30 minutes of my time, you can take a look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gdf/ and take a little effort to see what has actually be done to improve Guntella.

I can't believe there are still people this biased...

[goweropolis]

I use Gnucleus from time to time, and it works pretty well for me.

[Miniver]

OMFG, do you even pay attention to anything, want me to list off the incredible number of advancements that have been made... Well, rather than take 30 minutes of my time, you can take a look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_gdf/ and take a little effort to see what has actually be done to improve Guntella.

I can't believe there are still people this biased...
ooh magnet links...I'm amazed.

[babarfloyd]

Hey ccc, does BS have PFS yet?

[John W. Lindh]

ooh magnet links...I'm amazed.
magnet links are not part of the Gnutella protocol. The really new stuff at the moment are UDP file transfers to get around most firewalls and the ability to send all messages directly via UDP instead of just routing them through TCP connections. For certain purposes sending UDP messages is much more efficent. In addition, UDP messages are going to replace certain HTTP requests.
A little older is the new download mesh that is like a distributed list of alternate sources for a file. Clients can now actively remove themselves from that list, if they don't want any more requests and you can remove addresses that don't work, are busy, etc. making it a lot more efficient.

The next big thing may be a new distributed chat protocol but it's still in the works.

BearShare is the only major Gnutella client that does not support partial file-sharing.

[babarfloyd]

>The really new stuff at the moment are UDP file transfers to get around most firewalls and the ability to send all messages directly via UDP instead of just routing them through TCP connections.

Shareaza used to get slammed by the_gdf for using UDP. Why are they thinking of using it now? Are they using it in the same way as Shareaza?

>BearShare is the only major Gnutella client that does not support partial file-sharing.

ROFL! I was told at least 6 months ago by a BS dev on their site that they could get PFS implemented in a matter of weeks. I can't believe they still don't have it up and running. I don't see why people continue to use this outdated program.

[John W. Lindh]

>The really new stuff at the moment are UDP file transfers to get around most firewalls and the ability to send all messages directly via UDP instead of just routing them through TCP connections.

Shareaza used to get slammed by the_gdf for using UDP. Why are they thinking of using it now? Are they using it in the same way as Shareaza?
No. The largest part of the traffic is still using TCP connections and this will remain that way. Using UDP makes sense for routing queryhits and sending push messages. Searching via UDP is not a very good idea.

[Evil_Dweller_01]

BearShare is the only major Gnutella client that does not support partial file-sharing.


Bearshare has PFS in the betas....or at least it used to.

[ccc1005]

Bearshare has PFS in the betas....or at least it used to.
Yup version 4.6 will have tiger-tree hashing, PFS, XML queries (or something similar), and some sort of UDP support.

[aboi]

pssh i gave up on any gnutella program. Ares & Gift are the only 2 i use

[John W. Lindh]

GiFT connects to Gnutella!

[aboi]

errr isn't Gift it's own network ?

[John W. Lindh]

No, it connects to Gnutella, Fasttrack and OpenFT.

[shawners]

what i see that hurts gnutella the most.. is the unstable speed. I was on there long while back.. and it would fluctuate at 3kbs.. to 20.. to below .5 and so on.. It was up and down and took forever.

[ccc1005]

what i see that hurts gnutella the most.. is the unstable speed. I was on there long while back.. and it would fluctuate at 3kbs.. to 20.. to below .5 and so on.. It was up and down and took forever.
I usually get the same with eMule tho...

[Nemesis.]

I like Gnutella since my dls start almost right away. Go shareaza!!!!!

[John W. Lindh]

Nemesis... you edited your posting!

[Nemesis.]

Nemesis...Troll.
Troll? :mellow

[shawners]

im sure he meant that in the most nicest way. Shareaza takes forever for me to get any files completed.

[Nemesis.]

Well There is a way that u can tweak your Shareaza to get really fast dls and right away Ill look for it maybe that will help you shawners.

[ccc1005]

Well There is a way that u can tweak your Shareaza to get really fast dls and right away Ill look for it maybe that will help you shawners.
HAHA, ya and I'm sure it wonderful for the network at the same time.... No wonder G2 isnt anything special, if people keep doing that tweak...



I like Gnutella since my dls start almost right away. Go shareaza!!!!!

Oh yeah, it took me literally minutes to connect to Gnutella before I could even get downloads, not too fast if you ask me...

[MushroomheadXIII]

I havent been able to connect to gnutella after using gnucleus and shareaza, it just doesnt connect, but after using limewire, ive been able to connect, get good results and have gained trust.

[ccc1005]

I havent been able to connect to gnutella after using gnucleus and shareaza, it just doesnt connect, but after using limewire, ive been able to connect, get good results and have gained trust.
Exactly that is why I hope more people use Limewire and Bearshare to connect to Gnutella, these 2 work the best and are the best behaved on the network

[babarfloyd]

Searching via UDP is not a very good idea.

Why? It seems to work extremely well in G2.

[Nemesis.]

Oh yeah, it took me literally minutes to connect to Gnutella before I could even get downloads, not too fast if you ask me...

Well I connect to gnutella less than a min. the one that I have to wait a little more longer is Edonkey but I dont really care about it since its not that good in Shareaza. :shy

[ccc1005]

Well I connect to gnutella less than a min. the one that I have to wait a little more longer is Edonkey but I dont really care about it since its not that good in Shareaza. :shy
Ya eMule does a much better job with eDonkey IMO

[ccc1005]

Why? It seems to work extremely well in G2.
HOW??? I have been getting better results with Bearshare than I do with Shareaza using G2 recently.

[zab]

HOW??? I have been getting better results with Bearshare than I do with Shareaza using G2 recently.

OMG you dared criticize the glorious Shareaza and the impeccable G2!! I don't want to be in your boots when the army of fanboys flames you to high heavens...

[ccc1005]

OMG you dared criticize the glorious Shareaza and the impeccable G2!! I don't want to be in your boots when the army of fanboys flames you to high heavens...
Im only stating facts...

[babarfloyd]

HOW??? I have been getting better results with Bearshare than I do with Shareaza using G2 recently.

Maybe there's more of what you are looking for on G1. I don't have problems finding what I'm looking for on G2. I see no reason to even connect to G1.

[John W. Lindh]

Maybe there's more of what you are looking for on G1. I don't have problems finding what I'm looking for on G2. I see no reason to even connect to G1.
So, what's your reason to post in this thread? Troll?

[babarfloyd]

Couple of reasons. I was curios to know if BS had PFS yet and to ask you what the differences between Shareaza's UDP implementation and what the_gdf had planned for UDP.

STML? :blah

[Ticalrida]

I like Centralized Servers.

[Nemesis.]

HOW??? I have been getting better results with Bearshare than I do with Shareaza using G2 recently.

well I use Shareaza and Bearshare and ya Gnutella works better in Bearshare but my dls goes more faster in Shareaza so Im sticking with Shareaza... :tol