Wy is P2P not stealing? Second time around!

[MGump]

Hello,

Apparently whoever it is that responded to my earlier post on this subject had the power to "close" the thread. I guess that means you are not open to debate on the issue. I can understand that it can be tiresome to go over the same issue time and time again if you have done so but such is the cost of being civil. I hope you will reconsider your actions, reopen the prior thread and point me in the direction of postings that explain what you apparently don't care to take the time to explain. I would appreciate your efforts. I think you have mistaken my post as indicating I am not willing to listen to counter arguments on the subject. Nothing could be further from the truth on my part. Are you open to hearing opposing reasons on the subject? If not, why not?

Below is the response that was received to that prior thread within minutes of its posting:

"We do not care to. We get one of you a month, if not the same one over and over again, and frankly, I am tired of the nonsense, if you dont get it, you just dont get it, but you will not be our problem."

I don't think I am your problem either. I believe that you are your own problem because you won't make the effort to consider that there may be a better answer to the question or that the position you take may cause bigger problems than you realize in the long run. Or.... maybe if you took the time to voice your reasons, I might be convinced you have a valid point of view and change mine. None of that will happen if the conversation is nipped in the bud and not allowed to flow.

[cheapprick]

Personally, I'm glad you never got the message. I mean hey, the mods are just there to offer speed bumps right? Work around them when you know better than them.

Do you have any contacts that could get me releases faster?

[The Hunter]

This has been discussed here time, and time again. We do not need to hash this over again. Use the search option, and see if any of the threads are still open. PS I also have the ability to close threads.

[MGump]

Thanks for the suggestion to search for old posts on the subject. Any suggestions on what string to search for?

[Krell]

Yes I said it, everyone saw when I said it, and it still stands. This is a P2P portal, if you do not understand that we share files, its your right to, but we are not obliged to defend our position with you,

Thank you, and good bye again,


ps: if you keep it up I will just ban you for being a nusense.

[The Hunter]

As to what to search for use your own judgement, as when you hide as showing off line, and refuse PMs, you just fit all of the usual catogories of our continuing line of Trolls.

[Sephiroth]

You just asked alot of questions and just want people to tell you what you want to hear and just like the "does god exist" and "usa vs canda" threads these always end up in a pointless flame war..

And your assuming things based on sterotypes invented by the RIAA and tradegroups which people actually believe as true and some even act those sterotypes out.

File sharing is no different than a internet search engine the user chooses what they do with it. Since in your profile you say your a computer consultant and im sure you know that warez are on many different places that just file sharing.

Because real file sharing users at least before the lawsuits, and etc were fans. For narrowminded people to think otherwise is just sad. And then the same record companies who have alienated their customer base, labelled them as petty criminals, lauch attacks to them, lobby to get the right to hack people's pcs, try to cableize music and try to force DRM at every oppotunity wonder why their pay serivces have failed while ones that seem to be half way decent like itunes has been more popular in one week than the other subscription services have in their entire lifespans.

Which its easy to use file sharing as a scapegoat for the music industry but all the problems is not file sharing's fault.

Which the possibilities of file sharing and p2p is alot greater than you seem to think it is which i think is unfortante for you.

[Cleric]

I wont state my opinion because it has been beautifully put by the mods and others that have responded.

I personally dont understand why you came here to push the issue.
It seems as if your goal is create some kind of negative conflict on this site.

I stand behind the mods 100%. Read their response and you will find mine as well.

[Dealie]

You made the mistake of trying to have a discussion about actual issues here.

This is not acceptable. please keep your post topics to complaints about kazaa, meaningless crap, discussions about boobs, flames, and posts pointing out how many posts you have. then you will fit right in.


Enjoy your stay at zeropaid.

[The Hunter]

Dealie, I have tired of your flames about the site, and this topic has been discussed here before.

[Dealie]

What did i say that was inaccurate?


Point it out and i will gladly edit it.

Also. How is any new user supposed to know it was discussed before? the search function returns no results for the word "stealing".

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Dealie
What did i say that was inaccurate?


Point it out and i will gladly edit it.

If you just want to troll and instigate flaming then stop wasting everyone's time and go elsewheres.

[Crazy Horse]

Ooo Ooo...I want in on this one. Attention trolls - look to the left of this post. You will see my name - look at what it says next !! You have been warned.

Damn you guys (Krell, Hunter & Seph) you always have all the fun.

[MGump]

Thanks for your reply Sephiroth.

You stated in your post:

"File sharing is no different than a internet search engine the user chooses what they do with it."

That is an interesting analogy that I have not considered before. I wonder if it is valid. I understand that people who put content on web pages expect others to search for and find that content and don't have any expectations that they will get paid for the content unless those users end up buying something as a result of that web content. If the same thing is true of P2P file sharing then are you saying artist who record and sell copies of their recordings should expect copies to be distributed with no compensation to them because P2P file sharing makes that possible on the web just like search engines make it possible to find web content?

Maybe P2P fans don't have any argument with the artist being paid but rather with the large recording company's making too much profit. Is that really the position P2P fans take in your opinion? I can see where that could be a valid point.

BTW, I agree with you that flame wars are usually not very productive and that is why I don't participate in them and appreciate people like you who don't either. Thanks for your reasonable response.

I realize that I am discussing this issue with people who have strong opinions that seem to be counter to mine and that is a very good reason to expect that I might not be right. I could easily be wrong and, if so, am asking for people's opinions to show me where my logic or information might be faulty.

[isus]

if i was a mod, i woulda closed this the moment i saw it. threads like "second time around" after a thread has been closed undermines the authority of the mods.

why is p2p not stealing?

why is buying a legal cd not stealing? the artist who made the cd will not see your money. the big wigs at music company's will... it pads their wallets.

[Shadow, Thief of the Sun]

I think that my previous post wasn't very important, but i'll just point out that file-sharing is analogous to VCR recording. Who can explain why you are not stealing when you are recording your favorite show by using videotape ? You're not paying any money to its creators and thus it might also be called stealing. But its not.

[The Hunter]

Strong opinions, yeah kind of. As I was going to post earlier, if the filler is cut back on the albums, and they are worth the price then people might just buy more. It just follows the old thought crap, crap out. People are tired of being sucked into buying garbage albums. I just posted about Shania, and when asked about file sharing, she was not concerned about it. She just said, make albums worth buying, and stop worrying about running out of content. Just put in the content, and people will stop bitching so much. PS, I bought her album, just because she had guts. If they want to sell us albums, they need to smarten up. The kids these days are not as stupid as I was for so long. They want, no demand value for their money. Tofu on a cd will not cut it.

[MGump]

Shadow, a very well put argument.

My response though is to question whether using VCRs to record TV content was right either. I know that the TV industry fought that for awhile and sort of just gave up but does that make it right? Two wrongs don't make a right.

But is the situation even the same? Their product (TV shows)was sent out over the air or through paid cable so they received payment for it through advertising revenues and/or cable subscription fees. Since they got paid that way, allowing people to record and watch the commercials later would seem to make an argument for the TV industry to go ahead and let people record the shows and watch them time shifted or again and again. However, if the TV industry felt that their product was being copied and distributed to the point where they were losing revenue that they felt they had worked for, it seems that they would have had a legitimate beef.

I think the P2P community has a reasonable argument that the sharing of music helps to allow lesser known artist to be "discovered" by the public. I would agree with that. You make a good point there. I also like your point about letting the consumer have more choice. This should ultimately result in a better overall product because the artists will have to be more responsive to the consumer. My concern is that the artists need to be appropriately compensated for their efforts or given enough time, they will not bother to continue to create the products. Do you think this is being done in view of potential sales being lost due to the easy availability of music at no cost via P2P file sharing?

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MGump
If the same thing is true of P2P file sharing then are you saying artist who record and sell copies of their recordings should expect copies to be distributed with no compensation to them because P2P file sharing makes that possible on the web just like search engines make it possible to find web content?


No not just search engines, Piracy is not limited to file sharing, has been going on before file sharing was even around and even if file sharing could be killed then it would still go on.

not just limited to file sharing.

Originally posted by MGump
Maybe P2P fans don't have any argument with the artist being paid but rather with the large recording company's making too much profit. Is that really the position P2P fans take in your opinion? I can see where that could be a valid point.

Many p2p users are also fans and the last thing that they would want would to see is the aritst that they like struggle.

When artist bad experiances with record companies and as i posted before the actions of some of the record companies themselves certainly has a negative impact on peoples opinion.

[MGump]

Sephiroth,

What? You said: "Piracy is not limited to file sharing." Does that statement say that P2P file sharing is piracy? Are you saying piracy is OK? Hmmmm.... I don't think I could agree with that. If you are saying piracy is what P2P file sharing is and that is OK with you then I guess I would have to part company with you. I would have to be against saying that piracy or stealing is a good and acceptable thing to do. Wouldn't you?

[The Hunter]

Damm right Seph, hell i can still record to CDs, Casettes, and Reel to Reel. This has gone on for a long time. When I see a musician wearing a ton of jewellery bitching about how tough things are I just wonder, well just produce something, and not just a oh well that will give us enough tracks. I am a member of the union, and also have seen bands that worked their butts off. They deserve the cheers, and the sales. When you preach to the choir you are going to get burnt.

[The Hunter]

Originally posted by MGump
Sephiroth,

What? You said: "Piracy is not limited to file sharing." Does that statement say that P2P file sharing is piracy? Are you saying piracy is OK? Hmmmm.... I don't think I could agree with that. If you are saying piracy is what P2P file sharing is and that is OK with you then I guess I would have to part company with you. I would have to be against saying that piracy or stealing is a good and acceptable thing to do. Wouldn't you?
You are well trained at twisting a persons words, and that is how I saw you at first view. Piracy, No, just asking for value for money spent. I also have noticed you responded to Seph and not me. You are a troll, in my opinion, just sent here by the music industry to be a pain.

[The Hunter]

isus, I agree, this nothing but a post by a troll, and I am damm soon going to close it.

[Kilz]

I think I would like to through my 2 cents in.

Red Hat Linux disks 1-8
Debain install disks
Kenopixx iso's
Descent Dx1 ( open source)
over 75 megs of levels
Descent Dx2 ( open source)
over 120 megs of levels
Winsplit
Thousands of other freeware and open source titles
The Proxomitron ( This is an awesome program that deleted advertisements from web sites it is never on a commercial download site)

P2p isn't just about what some people are doing with it. There are files on p2p that people download every day that do not cheat or steal from anyone. That some people chose to break the law with this tools is a shame. But that doesn't mean that I should not have the right to use it to share what should be shared.

[Winphuk]

Originally posted by MGump
Sephiroth,

What? You said: "Piracy is not limited to file sharing." Does that statement say that P2P file sharing is piracy? Are you saying piracy is OK? Hmmmm.... I don't think I could agree with that. If you are saying piracy is what P2P file sharing is and that is OK with you then I guess I would have to part company with you. I would have to be against saying that piracy or stealing is a good and acceptable thing to do. Wouldn't you?

Hillary is that you?

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by MGump
Sephiroth,

What? You said: "Piracy is not limited to file sharing." Does that statement say that P2P file sharing is piracy? Are you saying piracy is OK? Hmmmm.... I don't think I could agree with that. If you are saying piracy is what P2P file sharing is and that is OK with you then I guess I would have to part company with you. I would have to be against saying that piracy or stealing is a good and acceptable thing to do. Wouldn't you?

I think you twisted my words. It was you who said "copies to be distributed with no compensation" which is after all what piracy is, correct?

Which i dont support piracy either btw.

File sharing is no different than the internet itself sure some people put up illegal files and all. But is the answer to destroy it all with lawsuits? Or malicious bots? Or by people snooping on p2p sites gathering "intelligence" and trying to coax people into admitting things by twisting their words?

Which i think now this thread has had enough and ill let you think about one..

[The Hunter]

Thanks Seph, i was waiting for your closing remarks, as I knew you would want to reply.
Now as I have said, when you preach to the choir in such a manner, it is obvious that you are nothing but a Troll. Probably a well payed one. But a Troll none the less, and as such you are not welcome here. Do you catch the vibe on that one?