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View Full Version : Don't invite RIAA into your house -- a sharing protocol proposal



jlogajan
May 14th, 2003, 11:48 PM
I've been thinking about how to invite your friends into your house or computer yet keep RIAA etc out. Here's the initial nutshell of an idea. Comments?



IOP2P -- Invitation Only Peer To Peer

A man's home is his castle -- he can invite anyone he wants to share his home or exclude anyone he doesn't. A man's networked computer is the same way.

Currently most peer-to-peer networks open the owner's computer to anyone and everyone. Yet it is very simple to restrict who can enter and the terms under which they can enter -- hence "invitation only."

Of course in inviting someone into your house, you needn't have initiated the request -- anyone can ask to be invited -- the actual invitation comes in responding positively to the request.

The model of IOP2P, then, is standardized request for invitation (RFI) text followed by an invitational acknowledgement (IA).

Take an example of a network of private computers wishing to share manuscripts by invitation. A potential invitee sends the search terms of the manuscript he is looking for along with a header text that is a standardized request for an invitation to other computer owners on the network. They verify the terms of the request for invitation, then search their manuscript database for matches, and finding any, return the search matches along with an invitation acknowledgment header. The searcher, thus being invited under the terms of the request he submitted, is allowed to see the search matches or request the manuscript content.

The request for invitation text should be standardized so that the inviter computer can recognized it and respond to the invitee appropriately. The text should be transmitted in unencrypted plain text. An example:

"I request an invitation to search your database at IP address 63.242.18.29 for item matches and viewing of matching content. I am not a member of the Nazi Party or Philadelphia Rotary Club. I am not acting in the employ of any government or corporation. The information viewed by the granting of this request for invitation to view will not be divulged to anyone else who has not also agreed to and meets the terms of this request. My computer is identified by the IP address 192.168.1.2 : 63.240.76.19"

(Note the dual invitee IP address. Some invitee computers are behind NAT routers. Invitations should be issued to specific requesting computers, not to networks. The only way to specify a computer uniquely in that case is to pair up the local IP address and the NAT router IP address.)

In reply to the request, the inviter computer echoes the terms of the requested for invitation:

"You, at IP address 192.168.1.2 : 63.240.76.19I are invited to search the database here at IP address 63.242.18.29 for item matches and viewing of matching content. You've agreed you are not a member of the Nazi Party or Philadelphia Rotary Club. You've agreed you are not acting in the employ of any government or corporation. You've agreed that the information viewed by this invitation to view will not be divulged to anyone else who has not also agreed to and meets the terms of your request."

For robustness, the request for invitation header should be attached to all search requests and all content requests. All search returns and content viewings should have an invitation acknowledge header attached as well. This prevents the possibility of the attempted fooling the state machine of the inviter computer into sending content uninvited and thus unprotected by terms of an invitation.

Additional refinements would include sending an encryption key in the invitation acknowledgement header used under the terms of the header for decryption of the search matches and content viewing. If content is encrypted it prevents third parties from snooping the network and viewing the content without specifically accepting the agreement terms in order to parse the decryption key and decrypt the content. In this way they can't claim accidental discovery, as they have to take specific steps to decrypt the content in order to recognize it.

IOP2P can be easily overlaid onto many existing P2P networks. It doesn't change the general operation of most networks, it just adds a header and text verification to existing P2P networks. In fact it can co-exist on a standard P2P network, in that it would reply to IOP2P invitee requests and transparently ignore older P2P requests.

SolidWing68
May 15th, 2003, 12:37 PM
hell the riaa is never invited into my house anytime so i dont care

Psilaxs
May 15th, 2003, 01:00 PM
Sounds good, but it wont work for several reasons.

1: who is to say down the chain of people, the riaa/mpaa wont attempt to infiltrate this invite only network?

2: you cannot arbitrarily make laws/ or any agreements/contracts, when it comes to technically breaking the law.

And extreme example would be, You agree blah blah blah, this cannot be used in court, you cannot use this information against me or divuldge xxx blah blah. Now click enter to see the hottest children on earth.

Just doesnt work that way.

hybridclient
May 15th, 2003, 01:12 PM
Hi

use the buddylist to share amoung trusted friends.
Send all your freinds a mgent uri link or ed2k lin and then Partial filesahring is only enabled to 3thr peers, not to the releaser A.
Or make direct lines to buddies and friends.

As well the trading of non-shared files is a way.
Trade non.shared files to buddies by the direct freinds lane-slot.

jlogajan
May 16th, 2003, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Psilaxs
Sounds good, but it wont work for several reasons.

1: who is to say down the chain of people, the riaa/mpaa wont attempt to infiltrate this invite only network?

2: you cannot arbitrarily make laws/ or any agreements/contracts, when it comes to technically breaking the law.

And extreme example would be, You agree blah blah blah, this cannot be used in court, you cannot use this information against me or divuldge xxx blah blah. Now click enter to see the hottest children on earth.

Just doesnt work that way.

First, a court has already ruled that P2P is legal per se. Secondly, visitors have to agree to the terms before finding out anything about what's in your share directory. So there is no advertisement that you have any illegal materials. The RIAA can't come barging into your house looking for dupe CD's for instance, yet you can invite friends over. The only way for the RIAA to get into your house is with a court order.

We are merely extending the concept of invitation-only to entrance to your PC. Currently you throw open your PC directories to everyone and anyone. This small change would restrict legal access to only those invited -- and those invited are those who agree to the terms of the invitation. It is, in fact, a contract. It is presumed legal until proven otherwise.

There was a court case in which a food processing grocery chain made their employees sign confidentiality clauses. A TV station sent in undercover reporters who got hired and agreed to the confidentiality terms. However, they recorded various food processing health lapses and reported their findings on TV. The grocery chain successfully sued them for breach of contract -- since they violated the terms of the employment agreement -- even though the health lapses were of public concern.

The RIAA can't say copyright implicit contracts have meaning and then turn around and say invitation only contracts have no meaning.

Theinfamousone
May 16th, 2003, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by hybridclient
Hi

use the buddylist to share amoung trusted friends.
Send all your freinds a mgent uri link or ed2k lin and then Partial filesahring is only enabled to 3thr peers, not to the releaser A.
Or make direct lines to buddies and friends.

As well the trading of non-shared files is a way.
Trade non.shared files to buddies by the direct freinds lane-slot.

That's much too complicated. If I was going to share files with friends, I'd either allow them to download from me via AIM, my FTP, or private DC hub.

As for the first post. I think it's an excellent idea. IRCers have been doing this for YEARS!! They have a message that you must agree to. It says that if you are a cop or anyone from the RIAA, MPAA, or BSA or whatever, then you can't enter their computer.

I think it would work! I don't know why this hasn't happened before.

We just play their own game. We may not be able to win with IP masking technology, but we could win using the laws against them. And best of all, you're right, it would be easy for Kazaa to set up a message system like this.

eivioolla
May 16th, 2003, 05:44 PM
Sorry, but
http://www.snopes.com/legal/privacy.htm

So don't feel overly secure after copy/pasting some worthless text into your fserve. If you really stop and think about it, it would be rather funny if you could freely break the law just by giving the law enforcement a note that you don't accept them looking what you're up to.

hybridclient
May 17th, 2003, 04:17 AM
>> Use the buddylist with a buddylane

> That's much too complicated. If I was going to share files with friends, I'd either allow them to download from me via AIM, my FTP, or private DC hub.


With AIm you cannot rzume, with FTP you cannot swarm, With private DCC you cannot trade it in p2p to all.

So you are right, but there ahs to be a mix of all.

Send a file fom "A" to the buddy "B"and use the g2 -protocol.
"A" the file not sahred in gntuella.
"B" decides to download or to swarm from the net.
If he decides to swarm, then this means i gives Upload to his partials,. this is then a must.

thatīs all.

and it is for "A" very safe to release, because his IP is never shown to riaa.


Because we do not discuss about your private files noe one is interested in, but we talk about files riaa/mpaa is interested in.

;-)

Theinfamousone
May 17th, 2003, 11:34 AM
eivioolla, nice post, that's an interesting article, dang Bill Clinton....

Oh yeah, you can resume in AIM.

jlogajan
May 18th, 2003, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by eivioolla
Sorry, but
http://www.snopes.com/legal/privacy.htm

So don't feel overly secure after copy/pasting some worthless text into your fserve. If you really stop and think about it, it would be rather funny if you could freely break the law just by giving the law enforcement a note that you don't accept them looking what you're up to.
That's a good article, but still I think RIAA being a private organization is different than a police force.

Remember, visitors have to make an agreement BEFORE they see what you got inside -- legal or illegal.

And even police forces have to have probable cause to enter private dwellings looking for illegal activity. They can't just barge in and justify it after the fact upon finding illegal articles.

Psilaxs
May 18th, 2003, 10:47 PM
And police can have "probable cause" by receiving tips from
private individuals etc.

You just cannot say, if you find anything here that you disapprove of, you cease to be my buddy, and may not say anything against me in a court of law.

You cannot discriminate on mere intentions. If that were so,
undercover operations would be non existent.

@eivioolla

That is exactly what i am talking about, right there.
If we could just come up with laws, through "clicked" contracts, well, the world would be a huge mess.