What happened to Gnutella 2?

[Theinfamousone]

I haven't heard much since Mike release the specs on G2, or MP or whatever you wanna call it. Has anyone tried to make a G2 client? What has Vinnie and all them said about it?

[nasrules]

to tell the truth, i don't think another g2 client is needed. shareaza is, in my opinion, the client with by far the best gui and features. g2 is great for verifieds (PeerWeb.org (http://www.peerweb.org)) as it's relatively small size gives it a significant advantage over fasttrack, whereas with the new releases you can max-out your speeds, unlike with edonkey.

[method77]

the real question is: What happened to Gnutella

[nasrules]

it was shite from the day it was conceived ;-)

[Theinfamousone]

The gnutella protocol needs to be overhauled to be more FastTracky. I guess they are working on it, but it has no users.

My friend on a mac uses limewire, he can have it open for days and no one will ever download from him. The searches are crap.

[p00n1s]

Originally posted by nasrules
to tell the truth, i don't think another g2 client is needed

What about clients for other platforms?

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Gnucleus is supposedly going to adopt G2.. and then of course all the GnucDna clients..
Actually Swabby is coding GnucDna for morpheus at the moment.. (that's what I heard..i'm not sure about it)
So Morpheus might actually do it first...

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
The gnutella protocol needs to be overhauled to be more FastTracky. I guess they are working on it, but it has no users.

My friend on a mac uses limewire, he can have it open for days and no one will ever download from him. The searches are crap.

You mean more fake files, and the number one target of the "anti-p2p" companies and the trade groups?

Unlike the other protocols gnutella is constantly being looked at to be made better. Which IMHO is alot better than protocols like fasttrack or DC and others which havent been changed in at least over a year.

Your friend probably has a older verison of limewire?

With the download mesh you can find alot of sources and gnutella is great for some files.

[Anenga2]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
I haven't heard much since Mike release the specs on G2, or MP or whatever you wanna call it. Has anyone tried to make a G2 client? What has Vinnie and all them said about it?
Gnucleus seems to be pushing forward with G2 support. Swabby (lead programmer for Gnucleus) is now apparently being employeed by Morpheus to code GnucDNA for them. Not suprising since all these client companies (Morpheus, Grokster, iMesh, Kazaa) have other people code their client, and all they do is stuff it with spyware.

In addition, there is a *NIX client in development called "G2Wire" and some other one too I believe. And mldonkey is apparently adding G2 support. I also heard rumors that someone is going to code Acquisition with G2 support (Acquisition is pretty much the leader in Mac clients).

Regarding other Gnutella clients adopting G2, I really doubt it at this point. I'm not going to speculate on any personal reasons why they're not using it (I'm sure there are some) but ram (developer for GTK) said that he didn't like UDP in the protocol. The GDF seems commited to extending the current Gnutella protocol, rather than whiping the slate clean and starting over (which I can of course understand). Good luck to them.

[Sephiroth]

Only because all the problems that a UDP protocol especially with firewalls. Other UDP protocols havent been that large and weather or not it can work on a large scale is still not known.

Plus "gnutella2" is Mike's Protocol its not really anyone elses i mean shareaza has the advantage on that network and like i say if details are going to take months to get posted then there is no way that gnutella2 can be competeitive and users suffer when programs arent competitive which is why its really only users with some programming knowledge are the ones who it seems are implementing it and since most is just rumors i wouldnt count on it since those usually arent committed enough to put any kind of stable release out..

In the end the conflict that it caused has not only failed to change people's prespective on gnutella but it still hasnt done anything to help gnutella compete against other networks.

[cpugeniusmv]

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/articles/auto/05012003e

[Theinfamousone]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
You mean more fake files, and the number one target of the "anti-p2p" companies and the trade groups?

Unlike the other protocols gnutella is constantly being looked at to be made better. Which IMHO is alot better than protocols like fasttrack or DC and others which havent been changed in at least over a year.

Your friend probably has a older verison of limewire?

With the download mesh you can find alot of sources and gnutella is great for some files.

The only problems with FastTrack come from outside as you say, Gnutella's problems are all internal.

The fakes and viruses and anti-P2Pism and low tech savvy users, even the lack of rare content, have nothing to do with the fact that FastTrack takes a relatively small amount of resources, has better speeds, finds sources easier, a lot fewer queues and it's technically possible to search the entire network.

[Cenarious]

and it's technically possible to search the entire network. [/B]
And how is that, hammering with search more, lol youd be there for days :fire

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Theinfamousone
The only problems with FastTrack come from outside as you say, Gnutella's problems are all internal.

The fakes and viruses and anti-P2Pism and low tech savvy users, even the lack of rare content, have nothing to do with the fact that FastTrack takes a relatively small amount of resources, has better speeds, finds sources easier, a lot fewer queues and it's technically possible to search the entire network.

Not at all. The anti-p2p companies, malicious and poorly coded or buggy severents do cause the most traffic on gnutella and degrades performance for everyone.

Fasttrack is more centralized than it leads you to believe. Not to mention that all the networks you mentioned are propierty or closed networks.

"rare" files is misued so much its not funny. Rare in p2p sense are very popular files where the demand for the file is greater than the supply(i.e. sources/bandwidth) to provide it.

For the vast majority of files it is not needed to search the entire network over. In fact you dont even need to search at all with things like magnet links.

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
For the vast majority of files it is not needed to search the entire network over. In fact you dont even need to search at all with things like magnet links.

i disagree with your last statement, in order to find sources for download you have to search the network, even with magnet links.

[Cenarious]

What Seph is saying is there is no point in searching the whole network and creating extra traffic if you already have a reasonable amount of results.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by cpugeniusmv
i disagree with your last statement, in order to find sources for download you have to search the network, even with magnet links.

But that doesnt have to be the same way in which you find files to download which was the point i was going for.

Finding sources is competely different.

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Finding sources is competely different.
i disagree with you there too lol

finding sources is exactly the same, except you don't see it and it compares hashes.

[Evil_Dweller_01]

When you search for sources or conduct searches.. you waste the network's bandwidth but when you just click on a magnet link.. the program seeks out sources for you and you don't waste as much bandwidth as you would when searching and then downloading and pressing find more..

Btw.. I think we just got out first G2 client.. mldonkey

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by cpugeniusmv
i disagree with you there too lol

finding sources is exactly the same, except you don't see it and it compares hashes.

Its not exactly the same because it compares hashes.. Instead of getting results on a variety of DIFFERENT files you are only getting back sources for ONE FILE.

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Its not exactly the same because it compares hashes.. Instead of getting results on a variety of DIFFERENT files you are only getting back sources for ONE FILE.
well, yeah...i can see how that would be...it would be like

"hey, this is a hash search!!"

"ok"

"*hash*"

"i've got that file!!"

same in principle

[dr. damn]

Originally posted by Evil_Dweller_01
When you search for sources or conduct searches.. you waste the network's bandwidth but when you just click on a magnet link.. the program seeks out sources for you and you don't waste as much bandwidth as you would when searching and then downloading and pressing find more..
True, especially since distributed networks such as Overnet are indexed not on file names, but on file hashes. That's why searching Overnet takes several minutes, but if you already have an ed2k link it will find sources in seconds.


Btw.. I think we just got out first G2 client.. mldonkey
Where does their website say that? I couldn't find anything on their nearly incomprehensible website about G2.

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by dr. damn
Where does their website say that? I couldn't find anything on their nearly incomprehensible website about G2.
yeah, i couldn't find it either...all i saw was a 'limewire' plugin.

[Theinfamousone]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Not at all. The anti-p2p companies, malicious and poorly coded or buggy severents do cause the most traffic on gnutella and degrades performance for everyone.

Fasttrack is more centralized than it leads you to believe. Not to mention that all the networks you mentioned are propierty or closed networks.

"rare" files is misued so much its not funny. Rare in p2p sense are very popular files where the demand for the file is greater than the supply(i.e. sources/bandwidth) to provide it.

For the vast majority of files it is not needed to search the entire network over. In fact you dont even need to search at all with things like magnet links.

I like your definition of rare, I guess a more concise definition would be "highly demanded" files.

What does the fact that they are proprietary have anything to do with it?

@Cenarious, it would take probably a couple hours to search the entire network, but as Seph pointed out, it's probably not needed. However, I am a file scavenger and search for files like "The Twilight Zone" (I don't download them or anything though, that would be "stealing" :- ), and therefore I leave it searching for extended lengths of time.

BTW, I really like the ability to time how long I search for. Props to the new Kazaa lite builders.

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by cpugeniusmv
yeah, i couldn't find it either...all i saw was a 'limewire' plugin.

Same here.. I wonder who the hell let that news through about the mldonkey...

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by Evil_Dweller_01
Same here.. I wonder who the hell let that news through about the mldonkey...

ironically, i did...but i'm considering deleting it.

[Anenga2]

Originally posted by cpugeniusmv
ironically, i did...but i'm considering deleting it.
Did you delete it? I hope so, because yea... I downloaded mldonkey and it does not have G2 support in it. It's in the CVS, but only in it's early development. Do you know who posted that news? OPENMINDED/HYBRIDCLIENT or whomever posted that, if you don't know him... all he does is just cry on the Shareaza forums that he wants GAIM (the IM client) support in Shareaza & Buddy Lists. He is attracted to clients that have Buddy Lists & eDonkey support like flies on... you know =)

[cpugeniusmv]

Originally posted by Anenga2
Did you delete it? I hope so, because yea... I downloaded mldonkey and it does not have G2 support in it. It's in the CVS, but only in it's early development. Do you know who posted that news? OPENMINDED/HYBRIDCLIENT or whomever posted that, if you don't know him... all he does is just cry on the Shareaza forums that he wants GAIM (the IM client) support in Shareaza & Buddy Lists. He is attracted to clients that have Buddy Lists & eDonkey support like flies on... you know =)
yes, it's deleted.

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by Anenga2
Did you delete it? I hope so, because yea... I downloaded mldonkey and it does not have G2 support in it. It's in the CVS, but only in it's early development. Do you know who posted that news? OPENMINDED/HYBRIDCLIENT or whomever posted that, if you don't know him... all he does is just cry on the Shareaza forums that he wants GAIM (the IM client) support in Shareaza & Buddy Lists. He is attracted to clients that have Buddy Lists & eDonkey support like flies on... you know =)

Hhahaha.. its that idiot openminded isn't it?
Buddy lists.. what an idiot, somebody tell him to get Gaim or trillian.. wtf does he need one in a file sharing program for

[Anenga2]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Only because all the problems that a UDP protocol especially with firewalls. Other UDP protocols havent been that large and weather or not it can work on a large scale is still not known.
Gnutella2, or at least in Shareaza, has push and it works just fine. I've heard it works better than in G1. Shareaza isn't pure UDP. Regarding large scale testing, Shareaza had a large userbase at one point (when v1.7 testing was popular) and it worked fine with over 60k users. It has around 20k now, and global search works great.


Plus "gnutella2" is Mike's Protocol its not really anyone elses i mean shareaza has the advantage on that network and like i say if details are going to take months to get posted then there is no way that gnutella2 can be competeitive and users suffer when programs arent competitive which is why its really only users with some programming knowledge are the ones who it seems are implementing it and since most is just rumors i wouldnt count on it since those usually arent committed enough to put any kind of stable release out..
What exactly is that run-on sentence suppost to mean? *sigh* Yes, Mike did create Gnutella2 and wrote the specs and hosts them on his servers, but I'm pretty sure he's made it clear that it is an open/free protocol. The Gnutella2 site will be updated to with forums ("GDF"-esque) and other developer resources where people can collaborate and work on the G2 protocol.

G2 "Public Development" hasen't even gotten started yet. The site isn't done and interested developers are only starting to sprout up. It's unfair to judge it at this point. Regarding only "talented" or "experienced" people getting into G2, well, that's how it suppost to be. Who wants spaghetti programmers or other people who aren't really interested in P2P creating some half-ass client with spyware anyways?


In the end the conflict that it caused has not only failed to change people's prespective on gnutella but it still hasnt done anything to help gnutella compete against other networks.
Well, I think it spurred Gnutella developers to work faster, even Vinnie realized that development was super slow and he's considered moving to a private network. G2 didn't have the chance to improve people's perspective on Gnutella because the GDF didn't accept it. So now people may see hope in G2, but not Gnutella... your right about that.

[Ashitaka's Ghost]

Originally posted by p00n1s
What about clients for other platforms?

They are in development.

http://shinobu.sf.net/

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by Anenga2
Gnutella2, or at least in Shareaza, has push and it works just fine. I've heard it works better than in G1. Shareaza isn't pure UDP. Regarding large scale testing, Shareaza had a large userbase at one point (when v1.7 testing was popular) and it worked fine with over 60k users. It has around 20k now, and global search works great.

Who wants spaghetti programmers or other people who aren't really interested in P2P creating some half-ass client with spyware anyways?

Well, I think it spurred Gnutella developers to work faster, even Vinnie realized that development was super slow and he's considered moving to a private network. G2 didn't have the chance to improve people's perspective on Gnutella because the GDF didn't accept it. So now people may see hope in G2, but not Gnutella... your right about that.

60k isnt large scale enough there are millions of p2p networks and if you want to be the best then you have to support them all and still have room for everyone else. Blubster another udp protocol was able to hold a stable network of i believe around 200k.

That comes with being a open network and if mike or you or someone is going to screen people then that again if not only not how Gnutella works but is not how a open network works.

Gnutella development was allready being done in that area. Why wasnt it taken seriously? Because of your poor choices in marketing it and ultimately Mikes poor choices and assuming things and not even giving the GDF a shot before going the route he did and now your paying for it and using vinnie as a scapegoat for the bad choices you made is funny. Gnutella2 has no one to blame but themselves. Just because you and ashitaka here ran around claiming its great and wonderful all the time and you "defend" it from its critics like me because oviously the performance of the network cant speak for itself.

And people dont see hope in gnutella2 at all most think its all the same and because of the name they think that gnutella2 is gnutella considering its the name that caused alot of unneccsary fricition is now causing people to sterotyping MP into being no different than gnutella is pretty ironic and pretty funny. In other words it came back and bit you on the ass.

[John W. Lindh]

Originally posted by Ashitaka's Ghost
They are in development.

http://shinobu.sf.net/

Or get it here:
www.vaporware.com

[Evil_Dweller_01]

Originally posted by John W. Lindh
Or get it here:
www.vaporware.com

No.. hold on guys.. let's get the best Shitella client out there!
www.limewire.com

Comes with unlimited search results and millions of users on the slow ass gnutella shitwork! enjoy!